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Also, first arc (Ghost Rider) was 8 episodes. LMD has run 7 so far. And there are 7 left. Could the rest of the season be inside the matrix?
I read an article (can't remember where) where they talked about this. Sounds like the remainder of the season is going to split the action between The Framework and the real world. That would make sense, since I'm guessing they'll want to wrap this story line up without leaving everyone trapped in digital world.
A-zombie,
Well everyone except Radcliffe obviously. I mean unless they want him in a LMD. Which I doubt.
Green,
I'm glad you approve.
CB,
Pretty sound reasoning there.
Just getting caught up, I absolutely loved Coulson's Red Shirt speech. He does "Nonchalant Basdss" so well.
Mark,
Keep going! This last episode was killer.
A-Zombie,
Yeah they could. But wouldn't that mean he turns into Machinesmith MCU?
Daaaaammmmmnnnnn! That was awesome.
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Mark,
I told you!
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Yes you did!
Good to know, Mark! :)
Okay so NOW we get the What If MCU and quite honestly...I just am ambivalent. On the one hand we get a world which has NO Avengers, little to no SHIELD and certainly plenty of suspicion, paranioa and lots of HYDRA.
But I also felt like we could have explored ALL this before we had to move on. That being said, some great work by Brett doing his best Ward yet. Plus factor to AIDA being Madame Hydra in all her greens.
Still not sure Jemma isn't quite the walking dead even if it's virtual.
Aida is a cold hearted machine, so a could hearted organization that is controlling and efficient makes sense.
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Yeah, it seems kind of weird, this whole manufactured universe.
Still, it's interesting that, as they pointed out, no matter what universe, he's a double agent. This time, it was all to protect Daisy.
Another stellar performance from Fitz. And just a bit terrifying how easily he becomes a creepy, higher-up of the all-powerful state. I just hope they don't use his reprogrammed personality from the Framework as an excuse to f!#% with the Fitz-Simmons real world relationship. That would annoy the hell out of me.
I loved Aida as Madame Hydra. They even had the green color in her hair, it seemed.
I believe that was Mike Peterson/Deathlok in the grave with Simmons.
How did the Framework know that Nadeer's brother was an Inhuman?
It's a simulation that is the result of the Darkhold. I assume it's a perfect simulation of reality, only with a few events changed. In particular Coulson never joining Shield (which has HUGE impacts on the MCU) and the Bahrain incident not going down the same way.
Anyway I loved last night's ep. AoS is at it's strongest I think when it deals with Hydra, and Aida as Madame Hydra with an oedipal complex is far better than Aida as an emotionless robot with some watchdog lackeys.
MMC,
Yeah that does make AIDA more compelling as a villain when she's got emotional impact to her.
The whole universe is weird but I think that's the point. If it was just a normal MCU universe, we'd expect the Avengers to fix it. This time around, NO Avengers. So it's just SHIELD versus HYDRA.
Greenie,
I think it's less that HYDRA makes sense than the fact it would become the dominant power after all the changes done to this reality.
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Fantastic episode
loved the signs that Coulson is fighting it, especially that last scene with Daisy. Really shows what those two mean to each other. Can't wait to see what's next.
Cause somebody is still missing, and I bet he has unconciously built himself an Axegun
Skeld,
Maybe?! I dunno. I wouldn't trust it still. LMDs are pretty...unstable.
I mean look at AIDA!
Grey,
Yeah I'm sure shotgun-axe is something Mac is toying with in the back of his garage.
Overall Madame Hydra for the win.
Ward, pretty much from season one, has been loyal to individuals, not organizations. Garrett, than Skye, then Agent 33. He only became a self-motivated villain when he decided to embark on his roaring rampage of revenge (and later being used as a host for an Inhuman parasite)
In this version of reality, he is loyal to Skye first and foremost (Presumably Garrett is long dead, without the Kree healing solution), especially since him and Skye seem to be an actual couple. He is TOTALLY down with throwing Hydra under the bus if it save Skye.
I mean he is definitely messed up in the head, but maybe more stable thanks to Skye?
MMC I think is correct, Grant isn't about the organization. He's about the people he feels close to. In this case, Matrix-Ward is loyal to his idea of Skye even if she's not truly his Skye.
As for Garrett...no clear idea but it might be he didn't make it due to the fact HYDRA didn't need him.
MMC I think is correct, Grant isn't about the organization. He's about the people he feels close to. In this case, Matrix-Ward is loyal to his idea of Skye even if she's not truly his Skye.
To be fair, she was his Skye up until a few hours ago. Daisy's mind just got slotted into the Matrix-Skye avatar. It may take Ward more than a few hours to notice she's not the same person.
Damon,
Slightly true. I mean it's barely been 24 hours that I can see. Maybe. Time is hard to make out in a virtual world.
This is a very good question. How much control over things dose Madam Hydra have? Aida did say that resetting the Framework for new guests was a fairly significant undertaking so I think we can assume that things can't be reprogrammed on a whim.
Grey,
Probably depends on the amount of changes she makes. I mean if it's as simple as adding in more cars or vehicles, I don't see that as a problem. People and/or living things plus physical laws seem pretty set. Bending them might be a little more tricky.
OK, I'm done with the matrix now. Turning Fitz into a douche is probably a lot of fun for Iain De Caestecker, but really sucks for story telling. They better get out soon.
It was a good episode over all and I like the story as a whole, don't get me wrong. It's just that taking the single most decent person in the series and turning him into another Grant Ward removes one of the reasons I really like the show. This has to end.
Feros,
Well we've yet to see how Mack turns out... I mean he might be happier with his kid and all.
Plus evil Fitz might be just "Fitz without a filter" that is Gemma obviously.
Feros,
Well we've yet to see how Mack turns out... I mean he might be happier with his kid and all.
Plus evil Fitz might be just "Fitz without a filter" that is Gemma obviously.
In Canada, we get to see Agents of SHIELD at 8PM. I was responding to tonight's episode with Mack, Mace, Agnes, and Radcliffe. He is NOT just "Fitz without a filter."
And Mack's happiness just took a left turn at Albuquerque.
EDIT: I'm avoiding details so as to not be spoilery. :)
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*shakes his fist* Damn you Canada and your early SHIELD showings!!
Also yeah I was miffed by the fact Fitz just did a 180.
But again I think something AIDA/Madame Hydra/Ophelia did made him this way. Whatever it is, I don't think it can be undo. Especially now that he's proven to gone darkside.
Poor Daisy. But props to Mack for coming in.
Whatever else happens, at least Coulson is sort of in sync with Gemma and Daisy.
We're assuming Mack came in. For all we know he's doing another job to keep his Hope safe.
Mace is looking badass. Everything he ever hoped to be under the worst possible circumstances.
I wonder if Coulson's Tahiti experience makes him less susceptible to the Frameworks simulation.
I wonder if Coulson's Tahiti experience makes him less susceptible to the Frameworks simulation.I think that's what they are implying.
Yeah that was my take
So Project Looking Glass? Is this some experiment in the "simulation" to allow a person to exit without needing an existing body to download into? Madame Hydra doesn't seem at all to like her AIDA form, and seems to want to exist in our reality in her current form, not AIDAs. If so, is this how we are getting heroic Grant Ward back? I would legitimately be cool with getting this version of Grant Ward as a series regular.
I assume the Fitz and May situation is going to get reversed, but can't imagine it won't leave some serious mental scars
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My thoughts on last night.....
But, yeah, the writer's are probably just making him a dick. I'm just hoping they don't use whatever crap Aida's done to his head to make him evil in the real world. The last thing we need is Evil Fitz revitalizing Hydra.
Aida has really gone psycho. In this case, though, I think its partially out of some obsession-mistaken-for-love for Fitz. It's why she killed off Simmons in the Framework. It seems like she's filled his head with some b%~!$@!~ fantasy about the real world being (maybe) a parallel universe or something. And that she escaped.
I wonder what Project Looking Glass is? Mayhap she plans to let the Framework versions of many characters develop to the point where they can act somewhat autonomously (but still loyal to her), then download them all into LMD bodies and invade the real world.
Of all the crap that's been done to people stuck in there, what's been done to Mack is probably the most cruel. I really want to see him put an axe gun through Aida's head again.
Framework May is an evil skank. Either that, or she's the one pulling the long con on Aida. Either way, I look forward to seeing her unleashed on that AI B$~~$.
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My thoughts on last night.....
** spoiler omitted **
Interesting theory on Project Looking Glass.
On the other hand, she's cuckoo for cocoa puffs, so 'makes sense' might not be a decisive factor in her decision-making algorithms...
On the other, other hand, it would be one way for Ward to return to the show, as an LMD downloaded with this version of himself. Just to drive people who hate him nuts. :)
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My theory on Fitz, May, and the others:
These AI equivalents are being imposed over the actual personalities. When Daisy and Jemma hacked in, they pushed aside the Framework structures and took over. In Jemma's case, she found herself digging her way out of a mass grave, her AI never made or—even worse—created and murdered on Aida's orders.
The real people are still there, but they don't have the ability to shake off the Framework construct. Whether they are conscious or not remains to be seen.
Coulson is able to break through because of his experience with something similar, I agree that this is pretty obvious. I like the touches with Gregg's performance in how he starts a crazy teacher with fragments and the real Coulson slowly bleeding through. Very well done.
The upshot is they might not be able to get through to anyone inside the Framework without blowing out their minds or something to allow the real person to come through.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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My framework theory
Joel,
That seems...unlikely but it's a good enough theory right.
Honestly I have no idea what Project Looking-Glass could be, but since it's seems to be based on Alice in Wonderland, obviously something to bring through something or go to somewhere.
What is REALLY striking to me is that AIDA/Ophelia is certainly upset by the fact she felt artificial. Especially since she was the first. But now, here, with virtual people, she's more...human than the rest.
Whether or not this leads to Ward's return, is unclear. I do think though Project Looking-Glass is something connected towards taking out Inhumans because obviously AIDA sees them as a threat just as much as humans.
How this all plays out is kind of beyond me, but I do keep wishing someone would pull a Neo here somehow. Or am I confusing two different franchises?
Joel,
That seems...unlikely but it's a good enough theory right.
Honestly I have no idea what Project Looking-Glass could be, but since it's seems to be based on Alice in Wonderland, obviously something to bring through something or go to somewhere.
What is REALLY striking to me is that AIDA/Ophelia is certainly upset by the fact she felt artificial. Especially since she was the first. But now, here, with virtual people, she's more...human than the rest.
Whether or not this leads to Ward's return, is unclear. I do think though Project Looking-Glass is something connected towards taking out Inhumans because obviously AIDA sees them as a threat just as much as humans.
How this all plays out is kind of beyond me, but I do keep wishing someone would pull a Neo here somehow. Or am I confusing two different franchises?
No, I also want to see Daisy—the uber-hacker formerly known as Skye—realize that "there is no spoon."
:)
Feros,
Well it might help win the day moreso than her going full Inhuman.
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I am also hoping for some "there is no spoon" events soon as well.
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No, I also want to see Daisy—the uber-hacker formerly known as Skye—realize that "there is no spoon." :)
There's also the scary possibility that *Fitz* will be one to realize that if the world is a computer simulation created by not-Aida, then he might be able to hack it and do some Alice-in-Wonderland stuff, like shrink or grow or cut guns in half with his mind.
Chris,
I'm guessing she's put on Demi-god mode but due to accepting the constraints of the Framework, she probably doesn't have full God power.
I'll admit... I hate these huge breaks in the middle of the season... Anyone have a headcount anymore about who's real and who isn't??
I had forgotten at the time that May was even inside despite the fact that finding her was such a huge plot point when the show ended...
Jemma and Skye went in voluntarily. Coulson and Fitz were captured and stuck in there... Radcliffe was murdered naturally... Ward is of course fake... What about Mace and Mack? Did/When were they pulled in? That first episode it was all about Daisy and Jemma finding Coulson and Fitz... I don't remember word one dropped about the others...
As for Aida going back outside the matrix? I think she literally HAS to do something to keep the plug from getting pulled. Anyone able to find the framework can destroy it. Everyone in that little infinite box is extrememly vulnerable even if they never get put back into physical bodies.
As for Evil Fitz... What happens in the matrix stays in the matrix. Agnes was already 'literally' dead... I don't see anything here something he can't come back from. Might be some drama... but I don't think he's completely gone yet.
Phantom,
As far as I know Mace and Mack are in there for real. It happened when Coulson, Fitz and Mac tried to rescue the director along with Daisy. Fitz got replaced too. So..yeah.
AIDA as far I know, might be running two separate versions of herself. I mean it's possible. Right now though if she's just in the Framework, her guardian (aka the former head of the Watchdogs) is probably on guard.
Evil Fitz will probably have huge repercussions, not the least I'm sure (as the writers intended) the break up of Fitz and Simmons. (Which we all agree, SUCKS!)
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A further thought on Other Ward....
That also gets me thinking. Aida has to manipulate or threaten those who's minds are actually plugged into the Framework. She can't actually control them. Someone who is almost entirely a construct of the program, however, might be subject to some "tweaking" by her. We could yet see Ward betray Daisy and company.
Or, maybe she'll force him to betray them, then Ward will overcome Aida's programming and turn her own lesson on "people seeing me as less than human" against her.