Friend said humans and fighters are boring, “I swing my sword again. Meh…” So I’m setting out to prove him wrong by building a weird human fighter that is fun, interesting, and still effective enough to not be an anchor. Even if he is not the DPR king.
Currently considering Lore Warden - THW (though Savage Warrior - natural weapon or Cad also look interesting) though I could be convinced otherwise.
Str 18(16+2), Dex 12, Con 12, Int 12 Wis 7 Cha 14
The GM said he was ok with taking more than 1 eldritch heritage if I meet the prereq’s. So if I can find 2 bloodlines that work well together for a non-caster, I will do that.
Pairs that I am considering because they use the same skill are:
Imperious and Maestro - perform
Aberrant and Deep Earth – know dungeoneering
Draconic and Accursed - perception
Serpentine and Infernal - diplomacy
Any combination of Star Soul, Fey, and Storm Born – know nature
Any combination of Abyssal, Elemental, Protean, Verdant, Djinni, Efreeti, Marid, and Shaitan – know planes
(What would be your suggestion?)
Combat feats will be the bonus feats until there is an opening from the others.
1 Skill Focus?, Iron Will, and Power Attack
2 Weapon Focus
3 Eldritch Heritage 1
4 Cha +1 and weapon specialization
5 Eldritch Heritage 2
6 Furious Focus
7 Improved Iron Will
8 Cha +1 and Blind Fight
9 Improved Initiative
10 Improved Critical
11 Improved Eldritch Heritage 1
12 bonus?
13 Improved Eldritch Heritage 2
14 bonus?
What do you think? Which Archtype do you think would work best? What 2 (or more) bloodlines would you pick? How would you adjust?
Take the human trait for 3 Skil Foci - so you can actually mix everything.
Ok, good point. So if I did take Focus Study, I could switch the improved initiative to level 5 and the second eldritch heritage to level 9. If they don't use the same bloodline anyway.
So what bloodline combinations are you recommending?
Arcane would give a familiar but the improved and greater give me nothing. Serpentine would give a serpent familiar aafter 11th level.
Deep earth, fey, verdant, accursed, protean, dreamspun, aquatic, and maestro give some interesting non-killing attack options.
Celestial would give a tiny amount of healing, but this probably doesn't seem worth it to me.
Rakasha and Imperious give some nice non-combat abilities.
If I was doing the Savage Warrior archtype
Abyssal and draconic would give a claw attack for a natural weapon to use with the SW abilities. Serpentine gives fangs.
Aberrant, celestial, elemental, protean, starsoul, stormborn, shadow, djinni, efreeti, marid, and shaitan all would give a minor ranged attack going with the theme of not fighting with weapons.
Many/most of them give nice minor resistances or defensive boosts for the improved eldritch heritage. But that wouldn't be until level 11+. Still nice, but not game changing by that point.
I asked a question like this a few months back and was told you can't get more than one bloodline without a sorcerer dip.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q0d7?Viable-characters-with-two-Eldritch-Herit age#5
Correct. By RAW you can not take the same feat (eldritch heritage in this case) unless the feat description specifically allows it.
However, in this case, my GM has said he will allow us to take the eldritch heritage feats multiple times with different bloodlines.
if you really want to prove your point just take one (its less impressive to be right if you have to bend/break the rules to get there). I'm a big fan of the shadow bloodline- mostly just because a fighter that can HiPS is terrifying, and it lets you benefit from Moonlight Stalker (though you have to take 3rd level bloodline power too)
If house rule or a dip allows, then I'd personally go shadow & orc on a fighter.
Yea orc + pptimistic gambler + quicken SLA = amazing for martial characters!
Speaking of Quicken SLA, does anyone know how it's supposed to work with SLAs that aren't based on actual spells?... I was just thinking about that with the Orc bloodline.
Orc is the best even if I don't think you can quicken Touch of Rage.
One other amazing one is pit-Touched. +6 to cos + wings. Also, the 1 level power is nice if you have a channelling weapon.
if you really want to prove your point just take one (its less impressive to be right if you have to bend/break the rules to get there)...
Well, for our group it is not really breaking the rules. It has been a stated house rule for a couple of years. No one has taken advantage of it yet. I think the GM used it on a couple of NPC's though. And I liked the way that wierded-out a some of the other players.
... I'm a big fan of the shadow bloodline- mostly just because a fighter that can HiPS is terrifying, and it lets you benefit from Moonlight Stalker (though you have to take 3rd level bloodline power too)
I like the power at 3. The HiPS at level 9 is boss, but I could get it earlier by just the shadow dancer prestige class. But the first level power that I would have until level 11+ is pretty anemic. At first I thought “Hey dazzled!” But how many opponents don’t have either darkvision or lowlight vision? Seems fairly rare in my experience. But I will consider it for the later effects.
If house rule or a dip allows, then I'd personally go shadow & orc on a fighter.
Still considering Shadow bloodline. Not really too interested in the orc bloodline. I mean I could just play a 1/2orc barbarian and pretty much be better off.
I’m trying for abilities or effects that can’t easily be gotten by just playing another race or a multi-class dip. That will more ‘showcase’ that anything can be interesting if you just think about the possibilities rather than just “the guide says take this, that, and those...”
I love the Boreal bloodline myself.
If we ever have adventures in the high mountains or arctic conditions, it would be great. So far, that hasn’t happened but once in the mountains. Current campaign is mostly mediterranean type locations. But I may consider with next campaign description.
Orc is the best even if I don't think you can quicken Touch of Rage.
One other amazing one is pit-Touched. +6 to cos + wings. Also, the 1 level power is nice if you have a channelling weapon.
A bonus to constitution is normally something I really like. But I could gain more and at the beginning of my career by just dumping cha for points in con and playing a standard fighter. I like the Infernal Hellfire better. There isn’t any easy way for a martial type to get anything like that.
I think you mean the Conductive weapon property. That is an excellent idea that I had not remembered. Several of those touch attacks are only moderately decent. But if I could deliver them while using my normal attacks they become much more attractive.
Ok with focused study I can actually get in 3 eldritch bloodlines. (I could actually get the level 1 power of another if it fits the initial skill focus.) So I think I'm looking at the following. Let me know what you think.
Note: I'm not too worried about the stuff after about level 15. Our campaigns usually end by then.
Human
Lore Warden (I will work on another later to use with the savage warrior archtype)
Str 18(16+2), Dex 12, Con 12, Int 12 Wis 7 Cha 14
Alternate racial trait: Focus Study
Traits: dangerously curious and {is there one that gives perception as class skill?}
1 human bonus Skill Focus: Know Nature, Iron Will, and ftr bonus Power Attack
2 ftr bonus Weapon Focus: Lucerne Hammer
3 Eldritch Heritage: Storm Born (frost property to weapon)
4 Cha+1 and ftr bonus Weapon Specialization: Lucerne Hammer
5 Eldritch Heritage: Fey (laughing touch hopefully soon have conductive weapon)
6 ftr bonus Furious Focus
7 Improved Iron Will
8 Cha+1, Human bonus Skill Focus: Perception, and ftr bonus Blind Fight
9 Eldritch heritage: Accursed (horrific visage)
10 ftr bonus Improved Critical: Lucerne Hammer
11 Improved Eldritch Heritage: Fey (fleeting glance – greater invis)
12 Cha+1 and ftr bonus Vital Strike
13 Improved Eldritch Heritage: Stormborn (resist elec & sonic OR lightning bolt)
14 ftr bonus Improved Vital Strike
15 Improved Eldritch Heritage: Accursed (dread gaze)
16 Cha+1, human bonus Skill Focus: UMD, ftr bonus Greater Vital Strike
17 Greater Eldritch Heritage: Stormborn (ride the lightning)
18 ftr bonus Devastating Strike
19 greater Eldritch Heritage: Accursed (dream walking OR + sv vs cold, fire, fear, & sleep)
20 ftr bonus Impaling Critical
A reach/battlefield control kind of character could work quite nicely with Protean's Reality Wrinkle and/or Efreeti's Giant Form abilities.
I don't know much about the conductive weapon property but if you could use it to have your attacks entangle with the Protean 1st level ability then it might stay relevant at higher levels?
Conductive with a ranged property (like protean) will only work with a ranged weapon. But the DC is only that of a normal tanglefoot bag. So pretty soon nearly nothing will fail the save.
I think the Efreeti Giant Form will actually combine better with the Verdant Tangle Vines. Giving you a size bonus to trip and greater reach.
Ah. For some reason I just assumed the dc would work like a witch's hex or something. And didn't realise it was limited to ranged weapons either.A reach/battlefield control kind of character could work quite nicely with Protean's Reality Wrinkle and/or Efreeti's Giant Form abilities.
I don't know much about the conductive weapon property but if you could use it to have your attacks entangle with the Protean 1st level ability then it might stay relevant at higher levels?
Conductive with a ranged property (like protean) will only work with a ranged weapon. But the DC is only that of a normal tanglefoot bag. So pretty soon nearly nothing will fail the save.
I think the Efreeti Giant Form will actually combine better with the Verdant Tangle Vines. Giving you a size bonus to trip and greater reach.
Most of the sorc abilities say the DC is 10 + 1/2sorc lv + cha mod. But for some reason, this one just says like a tanglefoot bag.
i hesitate to even mention this, because i know its hotly debated in these forums, but if your GM allows it i like the Umbral variant of shadow- you can give yourself a bonus to stealth checks that stacks with skill focus, and your trait bonus, and your magic item...
if you're looking for unique/memorable options, deep earth could be cool- at 3rd you get a ranged trip (the CMB won't be as good as your normal trip but it could be useful against enemies who don't want to engage you in melee); at 11th you can take the 3rd level ability and gain tremorsense (which is awesome, and almost impossible to get); if you play long enough to get the third feat you gain enough time with burrow to use it in every fight, which opens up a whole new world of tactics.
i also like the stormborn line, but i prefer that one with a barbarian (with the elemental rage powers)... of course, that could be because i've always been a fan of Thor, lol.
Shaitan
...
Acid Ray (Sp): Starting at 1st level, you can unleash an elemental ray as a standard action, targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. This ray deals 1d6 points of acid damage + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
...
Avalanche (Su): At 9th level, whenever you hit a single target with a spell that deals damage, you may make a bull rush check as a swift action. Your CMB for this maneuver is equal to your sorcerer caster level + your Charisma bonus. You can make this maneuver even if the target is not in melee range, and you do not provoke an attack of opportunity for making this maneuver. If the target is in contact with earth, stone, or rock, you gain a +4 bonus on your CMB check...
Will avalanche work with a spell like ability (such as the acid ray)? Otherwise I have no spells without a ring of spell storing or someone casting imbue on me, so it won't be of any use to me.
This one I am less sure of since I haven't built a savage warrior before.
Human
Savage Warrior
Str 18(16+2), Dex 12, Con 12, Int 12 Wis 7 Cha 14
Alternate racial trait: Focus Study
Traits: dangerously curious and {is there one that gives perception as class skill?}
1 human bonus Skill Focus: Know Planes, Iron Will, and ftr bonus ???
2 ftr bonus ???
3 Eldritch Heritage: Brutal (claws)
4 Cha+1 and ftr bonus ???
5 Eldritch Heritage: Infernal (shaken touch hopefully soon have conductive weapon)
6 ftr bonus ???
7 Eldritch Heritage: Efreeti (fire ray)
8 Cha+1, Human bonus Skill Focus: Know Dungeoneering, and ftr bonus ???
9 Eldritch heritage: Bedrock (tremor – trip)
10 ftr bonus ???
11 Improved Eldritch Heritage: Bedrock (rock seer)
12 Cha+1 and ftr bonus ???
13 Improved Eldritch Heritage: Bedrock (iron hide)
14 ftr bonus ???
15 Improved Eldritch Heritage: Infernal (hellfire)
16 Cha+1, human bonus Skill Focus: UMD, and ftr bonus ???
17 Greater Eldritch Heritage: Bedrock (earthglide)
18 ftr bonus ???
19 greater Eldritch Heritage: Infernal (dark wings)
20 ftr bonus ???
I am unfamiliar with the savage warrior type of combat. So I don’t yet know what combat feats to pick for that. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
"eyes and ears of the city" is the (a?) trait that makes perception a class skill (and gives +1 bonus); its a religion trait.
i have never seen anything explicit on using SLAs for something like avalanche... a careful reading of the ruling on using them for feats/PrCs might reveal something? otherwise its up to your GM (it seems reasonable based on that ruling, but reasonable is not that same as RAW...)