Morning all.
I'm reading the WWI in preparation for running this campaign, and I've just finished the section at the end that discusses the campaign traits and eventualy Mythic abilities. Under each entry they explain what can be done with 'one use of mythic power'... now we're trying to run this campaign without buying the Mythic Rulebook as we were assured would be possible, and I can't find anywhere that explains that term.
What is 'Mythic Power'? How many uses a day do you get? Does it recharge in some fashion? Can it be used in ways other than described? Am I missing somewhere else in the AP Book 1 that describes this in more detail?
I will say that reading the eventual outcomes of the campaign traits has got me excited since every one fits perfectly in with my PCs' backstories.
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Morning all.
I'm reading the WWI in preparation for running this campaign, and I've just finished the section at the end that discusses the campaign traits and eventualy Mythic abilities. Under each entry they explain what can be done with 'one use of mythic power'... now we're trying to run this campaign without buying the Mythic Rulebook as we were assured would be possible, and I can't find anywhere that explains that term.
What is 'Mythic Power'? How many uses a day do you get? Does it recharge in some fashion? Can it be used in ways other than described? Am I missing somewhere else in the AP Book 1 that describes this in more detail?
I will say that reading the eventual outcomes of the campaign traits has got me excited since every one fits perfectly in with my PCs' backstories.
Mythic power is basically a power pool available to mythic characters that is used to power a number of their mythic abilities and spells. It can also be used for a mythic surge that allows you to add a dice roll to another dice roll. If I remember correctly you get 3 + mythic tier x2 uses per day (so at tier 3 you would get 9 uses), and it recharges daily.
And yes, you can play Wrath of the Righteous without Mythic Adventures, but if you do you are going to have to change a lot of elements of the campaign in advance to scrub many mythic elements and make encounters less deadly. Playing the campaign as written without Mythic Adventures is going to very difficult as there will be numerous elements which will not be easily understandable.
Morning all.
I'm reading the WWI in preparation for running this campaign, and I've just finished the section at the end that discusses the campaign traits and eventualy Mythic abilities. Under each entry they explain what can be done with 'one use of mythic power'... now we're trying to run this campaign without buying the Mythic Rulebook as we were assured would be possible, and I can't find anywhere that explains that term.
What is 'Mythic Power'? How many uses a day do you get? Does it recharge in some fashion? Can it be used in ways other than described? Am I missing somewhere else in the AP Book 1 that describes this in more detail?
I will say that reading the eventual outcomes of the campaign traits has got me excited since every one fits perfectly in with my PCs' backstories.
Mythic power is basically a power pool available to mythic characters that is used to power a number of their mythic abilities and spells. It can also be used for a mythic surge that allows you to add a dice roll to another dice roll. If I remember correctly you get 3 + mythic tier x2 uses per day (so at tier 3 you would get 9 uses), and it recharges daily.
And yes, you can play Wrath of the Righteous without Mythic Adventures, but if you do you are going to have to change a lot of elements of the campaign in advance to scrub many mythic elements and make encounters less deadly. Playing the campaign as written without Mythic Adventures is going to very difficult as there will be numerous elements which will not be easily understandable.
Thanks for the explanation - but I'm not even sure what a 'mythic tier' is. Over and over again in the ramp-up to the AP release we were told that this was not being used as some sort of tool to force subscribers to buy Mythic Adventures, that we would have no problem playing the campaign as written without it. My group and I aren't trying to avoid the mythic elements of the campaign, I'm just expecting that the necessary rules to include them be part and parcel of the AP itself as we were led to believe.
Thanks for the explanation - but I'm not even sure what a 'mythic tier' is. Over and over again in the ramp-up to the AP release we were told that this was not being used as some sort of tool to force subscribers to buy Mythic Adventures, that we would have no problem playing the campaign as written without it. My group and I aren't trying to avoid the mythic elements of the campaign, I'm just expecting that the...Morning all.
I'm reading the WWI in preparation for running this campaign, and I've just finished the section at the end that discusses the campaign traits and eventualy Mythic abilities. Under each entry they explain what can be done with 'one use of mythic power'... now we're trying to run this campaign without buying the Mythic Rulebook as we were assured would be possible, and I can't find anywhere that explains that term.
What is 'Mythic Power'? How many uses a day do you get? Does it recharge in some fashion? Can it be used in ways other than described? Am I missing somewhere else in the AP Book 1 that describes this in more detail?
I will say that reading the eventual outcomes of the campaign traits has got me excited since every one fits perfectly in with my PCs' backstories.
Mythic power is basically a power pool available to mythic characters that is used to power a number of their mythic abilities and spells. It can also be used for a mythic surge that allows you to add a dice roll to another dice roll. If I remember correctly you get 3 + mythic tier x2 uses per day (so at tier 3 you would get 9 uses), and it recharges daily.
And yes, you can play Wrath of the Righteous without Mythic Adventures, but if you do you are going to have to change a lot of elements of the campaign in advance to scrub many mythic elements and make encounters less deadly. Playing the campaign as written without Mythic Adventures is going to very difficult as there will be numerous elements which will not be easily understandable.
Well, at some point the rules will be added to the prd. So you could hold off til then. That said, where did they say you could run it without it easily? I recall seeing comments about including notes on how to run without the mythic rules, but also that it would require work on the part of the GM. It's not exactly reasonable to expect them to print the necessary rules in the adventure path given how many different options there are after all.
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I'm sure James Jacobs will be able to explain the intent here better than I can, but the entire idea behind Mythic Adventures was to enable campaigns of the scale of Wrath of the Righteous.
I think you've misunderstood the assurances of the Paizo team regarding this AP. WotW is intended to be a mythic campaign, but as they have said on numerous occasions prior to release, it is possible to play this AP as non-mythic, but that will require some work on part of the GM to adapt it, because it will be much more deadly than a regular AP in order to challenge mythic PC's. Most monsters will be regular Bestiary variety, they will simply be more dangerous or numerous than you would expect relative to the PC's level, these encounters will have to be changed so they won't overwhelm non-mythic PCs, or you will need to do some side adventures to bump up the PC's levels a bit. Unique creatures and NPC's will have mythic tiers (tiers are basically mythic levels), these will need to be rebuilt (which likely won't be so hard, most of the stuff in their statblock will be recognizable).
That is how it is playable without Mythic Adventures, it requires a bit of work from the GM, it is not intended to playable as written without it. Expecting to have a 250+ page rule book explained within a 6 issue AP really isn't a reasonable expectation.
Well, at some point the rules will be added to the prd. So you could hold off til then. That said, where did they say you could run it without it easily? I recall seeing comments about including notes on how to run without the mythic rules, but also that it would require work on the part of the GM. It's not exactly reasonable to expect them to print the necessary rules in the adventure path given how many different options there are after all.
Go back to long threads where people were expressing their concerns about subscriptions being used to force the purchase of additional products, its in there with the fears about Mythic being a sort of Pathfinder 2.0 which have thus far proved unfounded.
When Skull n Shackles came out, subscribers weren't expected to buy a hardcover book on mass ship battles. When Jade Regent came out, subscribers weren't forced to buy a hardcover book detailing caravan rules. These were the analogies that were used. Had that been the case I suspect subscriptions would have begun to whittle down quickly.
I'm a subscriber, a dedicated AP and modules subscriber because I expect to recieve a product I can play as-is, with any additional rules being included as they have been up to this point, especially if they are going to be integral to the story instead of simply optional. And we're not talking about 250 pages of material here, just a simple description of what a mythic tier is and the mechanics of 'mythic power' as mentioned. That could probably be done in a simple side-bar for the purposes of this AP.
The PC's recieved their Mythic abilities at the very end of the adventure - perhaps it will be addressed in more detail when Book 2 arrives. I'm just trying to prepare to run this AP as written, using the rules contained therein and I'm worried that after all we've been told, that might not be an option...
I am willing to bet that the PRD will be available with Book 2 of the AP. At that point you can go online to view the rules.
However, to sum things up, you have a "spell point pool" (starting with 5 points) which you can use similarly to Hero Points (from the Advanced Player's Handbook) or to perform additional actions. In addition, some of the other abilities will allow certain abilities (like healing magic acting like the spell Breath of Life, only at lower levels) or the augmentation of Feats.
To be honest, a power-gamer will likely find most of the powers underwhelming and will likely instead purchase additional Mythic Feats.
Well, at some point the rules will be added to the prd. So you could hold off til then. That said, where did they say you could run it without it easily? I recall seeing comments about including notes on how to run without the mythic rules, but also that it would require work on the part of the GM. It's not exactly reasonable to expect them to print the necessary rules in the adventure path given how many different options there are after all.Go back to long threads where people were expressing their concerns about subscriptions being used to force the purchase of additional products, its in there with the fears about Mythic being a sort of Pathfinder 2.0 which have thus far proved unfounded.
When Skull n Shackles came out, subscribers weren't expected to buy a hardcover book on mass ship battles. When Jade Regent came out, subscribers weren't forced to buy a hardcover book detailing caravan rules. These were the analogies that were used. Had that been the case I suspect subscriptions would have begun to whittle down quickly.
I'm a subscriber, a dedicated AP and modules subscriber because I expect to recieve a product I can play as-is, with any additional rules being included as they have been up to this point, especially if they are going to be integral to the story instead of simply optional. And we're not talking about 250 pages of material here, just a simple description of what a mythic tier is and the mechanics of 'mythic power' as mentioned. That could probably be done in a simple side-bar for the purposes of this AP.
The PC's recieved their Mythic abilities at the very end of the adventure - perhaps it will be addressed in more detail when Book 2 arrives. I'm just trying to prepare to run this AP as written, using the rules contained therein and I'm worried that after all we've been told, that might not be an option...
This is a bit different to the ship battle rules or caravan rules though. Those are relatively minor additions. Mythic is a whole new set of rules that completely change the way characters work. And saying that all you need is a quick explanation of mythic tiers and points isn't really a workable solution either, given that mythic tiers are the whole point of the Mythic Adventures rules. There are six mythic paths, each of which has different abilities available at the first tier, and the following 9 as well. Mythic points are used to fuel those abilities. So while you wouldn't be talking about 250 pages of content, you'd be talking about at least 10 to 20. Given that the adventure takes up the majority of the book, then you have the bestiary, magic items, NPCs, gazetteer and fiction, there was no way they'd have been able to fit it in.
Again, I don't think the comments by the devs etc. were supposed to mean that you could play the game as is without needing Mythic Adventures, or at the least, the PRD. They were always very open about the fact that the rules were created to support this sort of story. They specifically stated that the adventure could be played without Mythic Adventures, but would require work on the part of the GM. There's even mention of it in the introduction by James in The Worldwound Incursion.
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Each volume of the WotR AP will include some advice on running the path without Mythic rules. If you want to run the AP without those rules at all, you can do so with some modifications. You WILL have to do some work to accommodate this, but as James Jacobs has said, it can be done.
When it comes to the Mythic traits, you can probably safely ignore the extra part about expending a mythic power, without too much worry. Just rewrite the traits a bit to exclude that. Or, if you're using Hero Points, let them expend a Hero Point to get the extra power.
ETA: It looks like the Mythic Rules are starting to appear at d20Pfsrd Mythic Rules
Well, at some point the rules will be added to the prd. So you could hold off til then. That said, where did they say you could run it without it easily? I recall seeing comments about including notes on how to run without the mythic rules, but also that it would require work on the part of the GM. It's not exactly reasonable to expect them to print the necessary rules in the adventure path given how many different options there are after all.Go back to long threads where people were expressing their concerns about subscriptions being used to force the purchase of additional products, its in there with the fears about Mythic being a sort of Pathfinder 2.0 which have thus far proved unfounded.
When Skull n Shackles came out, subscribers weren't expected to buy a hardcover book on mass ship battles. When Jade Regent came out, subscribers weren't forced to buy a hardcover book detailing caravan rules. These were the analogies that were used. Had that been the case I suspect subscriptions would have begun to whittle down quickly.
I'm a subscriber, a dedicated AP and modules subscriber because I expect to recieve a product I can play as-is, with any additional rules being included as they have been up to this point, especially if they are going to be integral to the story instead of simply optional. And we're not talking about 250 pages of material here, just a simple description of what a mythic tier is and the mechanics of 'mythic power' as mentioned. That could probably be done in a simple side-bar for the purposes of this AP.
The PC's recieved their Mythic abilities at the very end of the adventure - perhaps it will be addressed in more detail when Book 2 arrives. I'm just trying to prepare to run this AP as written, using the rules contained therein and I'm worried that after all we've been told, that might not be an option...
Why on earth would they do that? I wonder how many Mythic Adventure books they would sell if they wrote their flagship mythic campaign without the need for you to buy one?
Were you expecting a free hardcover? Sounds like a great way for Paizo to make a profit.
If you're not willing to support the company and buy a product completely intended to be used with the campaign, a fact that has been clear for like a year, then I don't see how it's rational to complain when you don't get as much out of the adventure as those that do support the company.
Sometimes you have a limited budget due to things like rent, mortgages, car payments, lack of employment, and the like. So you have to pick and choose which products you can purchase. Mind you, I purchased Mythic Adventures and this AP. I'll likely stop my Pawns subscription though after the Bestiary 3 and Reign of Winter pawns.
Sometimes you have a limited budget due to things like rent, mortgages, car payments, lack of employment, and the like. So you have to pick and choose which products you can purchase. Mind you, I purchased Mythic Adventures and this AP. I'll likely stop my Pawns subscription though after the Bestiary 3 and Reign of Winter pawns.
Completely understandable. What *isn't* understandable is complaining when you don't get as much out a product as someone who purchased all of the required material.
Why on earth would they do that? I wonder how many Mythic Adventure books they would sell if they wrote their flagship mythic campaign without the need for you to buy one?
Were you expecting a free hardcover? Sounds like a great way for Paizo to make a profit.
If you're not willing to support the company and buy a product completely intended to be used with the campaign, a fact that has been clear for like a year, then I don't see how it's rational to complain when you don't get as much out of the adventure as those that do support the company.
I don't think that Story Archer is expecting "a free hardcover". At least, nothing he wrote seems to indicate that he is. He's expecting that a product that he bought is usable without buying another book beyond the core rules. That's not an unreasonable expectation, IMO. Adventure paths regularly include stuff from non-core books, but with enough explanation that they can be used without those books.
Creative Director
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It's certainly possible to run Wrath of the Righteous as a non-mythic game, and these boards are an EXCELLENT way to get advice on how to do that—I even mention as much in each adventure's foreword.
But that doesn't mean that you as the GM should avoid reading the Mythic Rules. Even if you hate them and don't want to use them... it's REALLY helpful to know the rules so that you know how best to adjust your game to not use these sorts of expectations.
That said... Wrath of the Righteous is built from the ground up to use Mythic Adventures. In fact, it's the reason we DID Mythic Adventures in the first place; the story I want to tell with this AP requires more powerful heroes to survive, after all. Had we decided not to use Mythic Adventures, I would have either had to have used the SRD Epic Level stuff (which I'd rather not use) or, more likely, just never do a Worldwound Adventure Path (also not a great option).
In any event, the Mythic Adventures rules are open content, and thus pretty much free for folks to check out online. Which helps to lessen the "must buy a book you don't want" problem quite a lot.
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It's certainly possible to run Wrath of the Righteous as a non-mythic game, and these boards are an EXCELLENT way to get advice on how to do that—I even mention as much in each adventure's foreword.
But that doesn't mean that you as the GM should avoid reading the Mythic Rules. Even if you hate them and don't want to use them... it's REALLY helpful to know the rules so that you know how best to adjust your game to not use these sorts of expectations.
That said... Wrath of the Righteous is built from the ground up to use Mythic Adventures. In fact, it's the reason we DID Mythic Adventures in the first place; the story I want to tell with this AP requires more powerful heroes to survive, after all. Had we decided not to use Mythic Adventures, I would have either had to have used the SRD Epic Level stuff (which I'd rather not use) or, more likely, just never do a Worldwound Adventure Path (also not a great option).
In any event, the Mythic Adventures rules are open content, and thus pretty much free for folks to check out online. Which helps to lessen the "must buy a book you don't want" problem quite a lot.
I really wish that there was a 'Mythic' logo and that it was on the back of the adventure path. At the moment there is nothing on the cover to indicate that anything other than the core books are required to run the adventure. The foreword does mention Mythic Adventures, but it's written presuming that the reader already knows what that is. I feel that it should have been clearer on the cover what this AP is - only a fraction of the audience frequent the boards.
I hope that nobody new to Pathfinder picks this up as the first AP that they are going to run and then gets disappointed that they need to either get the Mythic book, or wait for it to go onto the PRD (if they know about that) or convert it to non-mythic.
That said, as someone who does frequent the messageboards and subscribes to the hardcovers, I think it's an excellent start to the AP.
It's certainly possible to run Wrath of the Righteous as a non-mythic game, and these boards are an EXCELLENT way to get advice on how to do that—I even mention as much in each adventure's foreword.
But that doesn't mean that you as the GM should avoid reading the Mythic Rules. Even if you hate them and don't want to use them... it's REALLY helpful to know the rules so that you know how best to adjust your game to not use these sorts of expectations.
That said... Wrath of the Righteous is built from the ground up to use Mythic Adventures. In fact, it's the reason we DID Mythic Adventures in the first place; the story I want to tell with this AP requires more powerful heroes to survive, after all. Had we decided not to use Mythic Adventures, I would have either had to have used the SRD Epic Level stuff (which I'd rather not use) or, more likely, just never do a Worldwound Adventure Path (also not a great option).
In any event, the Mythic Adventures rules are open content, and thus pretty much free for folks to check out online. Which helps to lessen the "must buy a book you don't want" problem quite a lot.
I really wish that there was a 'Mythic' logo and that it was on the back of the adventure path. At the moment there is nothing on the cover to indicate that anything other than the core books are required to run the adventure. The foreword does mention Mythic Adventures, but it's written presuming that the reader already knows what that is. I feel that it should have been clearer on the cover what this AP is - only a fraction of the audience frequent the boards.
I hope that nobody new to Pathfinder picks this up as the first AP that they are going to run and then gets disappointed that they need to either get the Mythic book, or wait for it to go onto the PRD (if they know about that) or convert it to non-mythic.
That said, as someone who does frequent the messageboards and subscribes to the hardcovers, I think it's an excellent start to the AP.
This is a good idea. I just looked on the back of the book and it isn't mentioned there in the text either.
That would be cool. A Stylized "M" for Rated Mythic. Or maybe Monty Haul? ;)
(Hmm... I wonder if I'm alone in wanting some low-magic campaigns out there. Wouldn't work for Golarion though... but I suppose I could strip out 90% of the magic and 70% of the treasure for one of the APs and rescript it for my own world....)
That would be cool. A Stylized "M" for Rated Mythic. Or maybe Monty Haul? ;)
(Hmm... I wonder if I'm alone in wanting some low-magic campaigns out there. Wouldn't work for Golarion though... but I suppose I could strip out 90% of the magic and 70% of the treasure for one of the APs and rescript it for my own world....)
I think it would actually have to say "Mythic", a stylized M might make people think it's for mature audiences or something.
Don't want to be put on the same shelf as F.A.T.A.L. after all. ;)
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That would be cool. A Stylized "M" for Rated Mythic. Or maybe Monty Haul? ;)
(Hmm... I wonder if I'm alone in wanting some low-magic campaigns out there. Wouldn't work for Golarion though... but I suppose I could strip out 90% of the magic and 70% of the treasure for one of the APs and rescript it for my own world....)
I am ALL about low-magic campaigns... storylines over cash grabs, characters succeeding due to their play and character design rather than accumulated hoard of magical crutches they gain. Its always seemed ironic to me - the more magic gets into campaigns, the less magical they seem.
Game of Thrones... that's about my speed there. Drama, intrigue, combat with magic on the fringe, touching everything and integral to the realm's history - but not available from every street vendor with magic swords being bought and traded like baseball cards.
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That would be cool. A Stylized "M" for Rated Mythic. Or maybe Monty Haul? ;)
(Hmm... I wonder if I'm alone in wanting some low-magic campaigns out there. Wouldn't work for Golarion though... but I suppose I could strip out 90% of the magic and 70% of the treasure for one of the APs and rescript it for my own world....)
I am ALL about low-magic campaigns... storylines over cash grabs, characters succeeding due to their play and character design rather than accumulated hoard of magical crutches they gain. Its always seemed ironic to me - the more magic gets into campaigns, the less magical they seem.
Game of Thrones... that's about my speed there. Drama, intrigue, combat with magic on the fringe, touching everything and integral to the realm's history - but not available from every street vendor with magic swords being bought and traded like baseball cards.
Might I interest you in Ars Magica? Seems like a RPG up your alley.
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Nope. You might not. I like the Pathfinder rules. I enjoyed 1st and 2nd edition AD&D and 3rd edition D&D. And I think there's plenty of room for each time of campaign. You can have a high-magic high-wealthy game... while I can easily run a low-magic campaign. To each their own, really.
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I have to say that when I originally made this post I had looked online for the Mythic rules to be posted and could not find them, leading me to conclude prematurely that they wouldn't be. I apologize if I came across too strongly, I was just very excited about this AP and my gaming dollar is stretched a little thin as it is.
Thanks to all of you who pointed me in the right direction.
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Mythic Adventures as a PDF is only 9.99 i feel your pain on money stretched thin and i had Mythic Adventures envy (tm) myself so i got the pdf, its not ideal but it does the job. Of course now i have wrath of the righteous envy
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Morning all.
I'm reading the WWI in preparation for running this campaign, and I've just finished the section at the end that discusses the campaign traits and eventualy Mythic abilities. Under each entry they explain what can be done with 'one use of mythic power'... now we're trying to run this campaign without buying the Mythic Rulebook as we were assured would be possible, and I can't find anywhere that explains that term.
What is 'Mythic Power'? How many uses a day do you get? Does it recharge in some fashion? Can it be used in ways other than described? Am I missing somewhere else in the AP Book 1 that describes this in more detail?
I will say that reading the eventual outcomes of the campaign traits has got me excited since every one fits perfectly in with my PCs' backstories.
Mythic power is basically a power pool available to mythic characters that is used to power a number of their mythic abilities and spells. It can also be used for a mythic surge that allows you to add a dice roll to another dice roll. If I remember correctly you get 3 + mythic tier x2 uses per day (so at tier 3 you would get 9 uses), and it recharges daily.
And yes, you can play Wrath of the Righteous without Mythic Adventures, but if you do you are going to have to change a lot of elements of the campaign in advance to scrub many mythic elements and make encounters less deadly. Playing the campaign as written without Mythic Adventures is going to very difficult as there will be numerous elements which will not be easily understandable.
Thanks. I had that same question after reading the first 34 pages of Mythic Adventures. This seems reasonable (considering the maximum is 23/day power pool uses). And, considering all the powers, this puts some realm of reasonable for both the heroes and baddies.