An elemental possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
•Darkvision out to 60 feet.
•Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning.
•Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
•Unlike most other living creatures, an elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life.
•Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
•Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) that it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
•Elementals do not eat, sleep, or breathe.
1. Can a paralyzed Oracle activate Energy Body while paralyzed?
1a. If they can, does this remove or supress the condidtion?
2. While Energy Body is active do you lose the benefits of your armor/other gear?
3. If an Oracle dies while in Energy Body can they be raised if all other conditions are met?
My guesses are
1. Energy Body can be activated mentally.
2. Not Suppressed. When you leave Energy Body, the rounds remaining of the paralyzed condition are applied.
3. Yes, you benefit from armor. Guessing you can't swing a weapon, though.
4. Guessing that if you die in Energy Body form, the SU ability ends and you return to your natural form and can be raised.
Paralyzed people cannot make standard actions.
Core Rulebook, page 568, "...can take purely mental actions."
1) i don't see any problem in activating it, there's nothing to suggest there is any physical element to using the (Su) ability, meaning it is purely mental...
2) you are immune for as long as energy body is active. the duration of any paralysis effect is running out during this time, but if it has remaining duration when you end energy body, you would once again be not immune and thus fully affected by the paralysis.
3) you don't lose the benefits of any gear. energy body is not a polymorph effect, it just changes your sub-type, you are free to simultaneously use a polymorph spell/effect if you wish (although depending on which form that uses, THAT could absorb all your gear including armor and weapons).
4) there is no problem being raised, energy body is just giving you (adding) the elemental SUB-type, it isn't changing your type itself, which remains Humanoid or Native Outsider or whatever you are.
5) yes, Elves, Aasimar, Ifrit, Sylph, and any other Race that can get "+1/2 level for revelation" via Favored Class are really nice for using Energy Body or other scaling revelations.
I wish it had more rounds of use. It's a nice ability. I can see why a caster Druid would want to live in elmental form.
I wish it had more rounds of use. It's a nice ability. I can see why a caster Druid would want to live in elmental form.
Well, the Aasimar favored class bonus is most popularly used for Channel Energy, so for example, by level 10 you're channeling for 8d6 instead of 5d6.
However, another decent option for an Oracle of Life is to pick Energy Body. Normally at level 10 you'd get 10 rounds per day, and heal d6+10 each round. With the bonus, you'd get 15 rounds per day and heal d6+15 each round.
It's an interesting option?
EDIT:
175 HP each day (10 uses of 5d6; 5*3.5*10) per person.
With the favored class bonus...
280 HP (10 uses of 8d6; 8*3.5*10) per person.
Energy Body would heal d6+10 for 10 rounds a day so...
13.5 * 10 = 135 HP each day.
With the favored class bonus, d6+15 for 15 rounds a day:
18.5 * 15 = 277.5 HP each day
However, there's many different considerations; channel energy heals multiple targets and that's often useful, especially with Life Link redistributing the damage. Energy Body is a lot more than just healing, but that favored class bonus does make it much more relevant; roughly doubling it's healing power at most stages of the game. (Even at level 2; compare healing d6+2 for 2 rounds to d6+3 for 3 rounds)
EDIT EDIT:
Another consideration in the Energy Body vs Channel Energy debate is that focusing your favored class bonus sort of forces you into sinking all of your feats into being a better combat channeler, so you take Extra Channel, Selective Channel, Quick Channel, and so on.
If you feel like you want to save your feats for something else, maybe consider Energy Body as you favored class bonus recipient.
...and finally, not all Oracles are Aasimars (Or Elves? I think they have the same FCB) so maybe this just won't a apply to you. But meh, there's my analysis nonetheless. =P
1b: What about poison? Are you still poisoned after elemental body ends?
We always play it that the poison is gone because you have been immune for some time, but is this correct?
In regards to 1a, I don't honestly see how gaining immunity to paralysis would not remove it. How can something keep ticking on you if you're immune?
I suppose the reasoning is:
You have the condition, but you're immune to it.
One you are no longer that subtype, the condition applies (no immunity) and the remaining rounds tick off. *in theory*
Well, the Aasimar favored class bonus is most popularly used for Channel Energy, so for exampleI wish it had more rounds of use. It's a nice ability. I can see why a caster Druid would want to live in elmental form.
I had not thought to add +1 to healed in addition to the +1 around. That's actually pretty nice.
I suppose the reasoning is:
You have the condition, but you're immune to it.
One you are no longer that subtype, the condition applies (no immunity) and the remaining rounds tick off. *in theory*
By that logic, though, you should be tracking every disease and poison a monk of sufficient level contracts, because he's got the condition even though he's immune to it, *just in case* he suddenly loses that immunity. It's silly.
By that logic, though, you should be tracking every disease and poison a monk of sufficient level contracts, because he's got the condition even though he's immune to it, *just in case* he suddenly loses that immunity. It's silly.
Silly, but technically correct. I remember seeing a post in a discussion regarding antipaladins (whose immunity is to the effects of the disease, but not to actually contracting and carrying it) where someone nuked a BBEG by forcing an alignment change on him; he was hit with the worst case of herpagonasyphilaids ever.
Re: Original post, since Energy Body is a Su and doesn't denote any physical action to activate, I would say that you could still activate it while paralyzed - and upon doing so would have the paralyzed condition removed since you are now immune to it.
By that logic, though, you should be tracking every disease and poison a monk of sufficient level contracts, because he's got the condition even though he's immune to it, *just in case* he suddenly loses that immunity. It's silly.I suppose the reasoning is:
You have the condition, but you're immune to it.
One you are no longer that subtype, the condition applies (no immunity) and the remaining rounds tick off. *in theory*
I would be fine with the rule either way, but suppression makes the most sense. If you have a condition that paralyzed for 10 rounds and you switch to engergy body for 3, you do the simple math and tic off the remaining 7. It's not that hard.
Re: Original post, since Energy Body is a Su and doesn't denote any physical action to activate, I would say that you could still activate it while paralyzed - and upon doing so would have the paralyzed condition removed since you are now immune to it.
You mean suppressed, correct?
You mean suppressed, correct?By that logic, though, you should be tracking every disease and poison a monk of sufficient level contracts, because he's got the condition even though he's immune to it, *just in case* he suddenly loses that immunity. It's silly.Re: Original post, since Energy Body is a Su and doesn't denote any physical action to activate, I would say that you could still activate it while paralyzed - and upon doing so would have the paralyzed condition removed since you are now immune to it.
In this case, probably, because paralysis an 'internal' effect. I'm not certain it would be true in all cases.
If you were on fire and changed into a fire elemental, would your clothes still be on fire when you changed back? I don't think so. But that's an external effect. That's all just opinion, btw - not sure of any specific RAW to back that up.
1. Can a paralyzed Oracle activate Energy Body while paralyzed?
Yes, as others have mentioned, it's a mental action and paralysis does not prevent that.
1a. If they can, does this remove or supress the condidtion?
The condition is suppressed for the duration of Energy Body. Whatever caused the paralysis (magic, poison, whatever,) is still in the Oracle's body, it's just no longer effective. If the Oracle changes back while that cause is still present, she's paralyzed again.
2. While Energy Body is active do you lose the benefits of your armor/other gear?
No. Not only is Energy Body not a polymorph effect, but you don't change shape at all. You're just made of "golden white fire" instead of flesh. Golden white fire wearing all your gear. :p
3. If an Oracle dies while in Energy Body can they be raised if all other conditions are met?
Yes, as was pointed out, the ability makes you a Humanoid (Human, Elemental). You're still rezzable.
No where in the description of energy body does it say an active condition is "suppressed." That's adding words into the ability's already quite concise description. You gain the elemental subtype. The elemental subtype is immune to many things, including paralysis, poison, and bleed. It doesn't say these effects are suppressed for the duration. It says you're immune to them. Hence they are cleared.
Contrast this with Protection vs Evil. If you are subjected to the spell while under mental control, you get another Will save. If you pass, the effect is explicitly suppressed for the duration of the Prot spell. If you are the target of another mental control while the spell is in effect, you are immune. It does not work, period.
If you becoming immune to something, the condition has nothing to hold onto. It is cleared.
By that logic, though, you should be tracking every disease and poison a monk of sufficient level contracts, because he's got the condition even though he's immune to it, *just in case* he suddenly loses that immunity. It's silly.I suppose the reasoning is: You have the condition, but you're immune to it.
One you are no longer that subtype, the condition applies (no immunity) and the remaining rounds tick off. *in theory*
Or you consider the # of Saves/Cure Condition of the Poison, most Poisons Cure with one Save, so there's no reason to track it further. Immunity should count as "not failing the Save(s)" you would face in a given round, "not falling victim to the affliction" (Affliction rules). If a Poison or effect has many Saves which don't Cure in the time you're Immune, you could potentially face a further Save, but it is not something that you will track every Poison ever encountered over a character's life, Poisons actually resolve themself.
If it's Permanent Paralysis, then being Immune to it for one round should be all that's needed to end it, because it's a one time application of condition, not a continuous application of a condition. If it's a Spell or other effect with a duration, then for that entire duration you're subject to Paralysis, meaning if your Immunity ends, you could then be Paralyzed for the remaining duration. Because you're immune to the Paralysis condition itself, not to spells or other effects which may include Paralysis within their effect (amongst other effects, e.g. turning you purple or blinding you).
On the flip side, that means a character who isn't immune to Paralysis, who is affected by a spell inflicting Paralysis for a certain duration, may be 'rescued' from the Paralysis by the spell being Dispelled: end the spell, it's duration for all effects ends (the Paralysis doesn't continue for the non-Immune character). If said character was moved (by allies/telekinesis/etc) in and out of magic fields which temporarily suppressed spell effects (not ending duration), the Paralysis effect would be lost and re-gained (duration or "ending round" being the same, regardless of how many rounds were spent in the magic fields suppressing the effect... on par with Immunity).
Things like Stinking Cloud are unique in that if you Fail your Save/ are affected by the Poison, there are repurcussions even after the direct spell effect/duration ends, but if you are Immune within the duration of the spell (/your time within it's area), you would never be subject to those secondary repurcussions anyways, even if you spent a round not Immune before triggering Energy Body.
Another consideration in the Energy Body vs Channel Energy debate...
Like you said, "Energy Body is a lot more than just healing".
Healing is a side show of Energy Body, there is no point in comparing them on a healing basis, Channel is superior there.Energy Body is great because you become Immune to: bleed, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, stunning, flanking, critical hits (and thus coup de grace), sneak attack and precision damage, and you also don't need to worry about breathing. Healing is just frosting on top, although crucially you don't need to spend any actions to do so, just have allies move thru you or vice-versa (and this also ends any Bleed, of course).
Plenty of those features are great if you want to be a melee Oracle, ignoring Crits and Flanking and the rest lets you tank alot more, especially with Combat Healer Swift Cures/Enhanced Cures/Energy Body's own Healing to stanche the non-Crit damage you're taking... as well as the free damage when meleeing Undead.
I would say that for general healing purposes Channel is usually just fine all on it's own, so if you were to take both, I would put the '+1/2level for Revelation' into Energy Body, because it lets you be less conservative with how you spend it's rounds/day. If you only forsee using Energy Body for emergencies (e.g. negating Paralysis/Poison) rather than wading into combat and shrugging off crits/etc, then boosting Channel for healing could be your ideal use of FC though, especially if you are happy with spending actions in combat on healing with (boosted) Channel (Quicken Channel helps, but 2 uses for a Move Action is a bit steep, and still precludes Full Attacks and Full-Round/1 Round Spells, including Metamagic and Summons, while reducing you to only a 5' step). The strongest reason I see why you might want to put the FC into Channel (assuming you are also taking Energy Body or another one you might put FC into, i.e. you have multiple options for the FC in the first place) is for it's non-healing purposes, e.g. Alignment Channel, Elemental Channel, Turn Undead.
No where in the description of energy body does it say an active condition is "suppressed." That's adding words into the ability's already quite concise description.
You're doing the exact same thing. Nowhere in the description does it say already active effects are cleared.
You gain the elemental subtype. The elemental subtype is immune to many things, including paralysis, poison, and bleed. It doesn't say these effects are suppressed for the duration. It says you're immune to them.
Yes, you're immune to them now. You weren't when the effect was placed on you. Nothing in the subtype or ability description states what you are claiming.
No where in the description of energy body does it say an active condition is "suppressed." That's adding words into the ability's already quite concise description.You're doing the exact same thing. Nowhere in the description does it say already active effects are cleared.
You gain the elemental subtype. The elemental subtype is immune to many things, including paralysis, poison, and bleed. It doesn't say these effects are suppressed for the duration. It says you're immune to them.Yes, you're immune to them now. You weren't when the effect was placed on you. Nothing in the subtype or ability description states what you are claiming.
Explain to me how an effect you're immune to can still be active on you. How does an elemental still have the bleed effect when there is nothing to bleed? There is a specific game term for what you're describing (an effect is still active but its effects are negated). It's called suppression. Suppression is not immunity. Immunity is greater than suppression.
Explain to me how an effect you're immune to can still be active on you. There is a specific game term for what you're describing (an effect is still active but its effects are negated). It's called suppression. Suppression is not immunity. Immunity is greater than suppression.
As far as I can tell, there is no specific game term 'suppression'. This is based on a search on the PRD and d20PFSRD sites. Do you have a link?
Of course, there's also not a specific game term 'immunity' either.
If we take a look at the general definition of the word 'immunity' it doesn't imply that being immune to a disease automatically means that you cannot carry the disease (i.e. have it active on you). It instead means that while you might have the disease within you, it has no effect on you.
Explain to me how an effect you're immune to can still be active on you. There is a specific game term for what you're describing (an effect is still active but its effects are negated). It's called suppression. Suppression is not immunity. Immunity is greater than suppression.As far as I can tell, there is no specific game term 'suppression'. This is based on a search on the PRD and d20PFSRD sites. Do you have a link?
Of course, there's also not a specific game term 'immunity' either.
If we take a look at the general definition of the word 'immunity' it doesn't imply that being immune to a disease automatically means that you cannot carry the disease (i.e. have it active on you). It instead means that while you might have the disease within you, it has no effect on you.
** spoiler omitted **
While it's not a keyword, the term has a very specific connotation as it is used by various spells (most notably the "Protection from..." line) as an effect that protects a character from the effects of a condition, without eliminating that condition
Delay Poison would be another example. The spell specifically states that any poison remains. If immunity didn't clear effects, it wouldn't need to state that.
I wouldn't mind seeing if we could get this FAQ'ed, as it has pretty wide ranging repercussions.
Explain to me how an effect you're immune to can still be active on you.
An 11th-level monk is stung by a wyvern. He is immune to the poison's effects, but that does not remove the poison from his system. It's still there, circulating in his veins, until it becomes inert a minute later.
A wizard has Protection from Fire up. He is then set on fire. He's immune to the damage from the fire, but the fire doesn't just go out, it continues to burn on him unless he does something to put it out, or unless his immunity goes away, in which case he then starts taking fire damage.
Immunity is a game term. You do not take damage or suffer the ill effects of whatever you are immune to, while that immunity lasts. Nothing in the description suggests anything about conditions being "cleared."
Explain to me how an effect you're immune to can still be active on you.An 11th-level monk is stung by a wyvern. He is immune to the poison's effects, but that does not remove the poison from his system. It's still there, circulating in his veins, until it becomes inert a minute later.
A wizard has Protection from Fire up. He is then set on fire. He's immune to the damage from the fire, but the fire doesn't just go out, it continues to burn on him unless he does something to put it out, or unless his immunity goes away, in which case he then starts taking fire damage.
Immunity is a game term. You do not take damage or suffer the ill effects of whatever you are immune to, while that immunity lasts. Nothing in the description suggests anything about conditions being "cleared."
So you're saying that a monk (of appropriate level) that fails his save against mummy rot will forever have mummy rot (unless he gets a remove curse), even though he's immune to it, and can now deliver said mummy rot via unarmed strikes to others?
If immunity works the way you're saying, why does Plague Bearer from Antipaladin have the wording it does?
He can still contract diseases and spread them to others, but he is otherwise immune to their effects.
If immunity works the way you are saying, they wouldn't have to have that specific text, because all creatures immune to disease would operate exactly like Plague Bearer.
I'm going to write up a question that I hope people will FAQ so we can get a dev response.
Rules wording is routinely superfluous, to make clear important functions rather than rely on the reader having perfect ability to apply the entire rules-set. It doesn't really prove anything.
I'm not sure why my previous post on the topic was wholly ignored...
I believe Poison Immunity PERHAPS has a stronger case to wipe out the Poison (Affliction) completely, irrespective of # of Saves/Cure Progression, because Poison Immunity is immunity to Poisons AS SUCH, thus any and all mechanics from Poison are Immunized, even if they may come on subsequent rounds when the Immunity may no longer exist... I don't think the RAW is any more than ambiguous there though, Poison's effects could just as well be intended to work as effects over a duration, and Immunity only immunizes vs. the effects at the moment Immunity is in effect.
But if you are talking about non-instantaneous Spells or Su abilities (which the target's isn't Immune to as such, unlike the argument for Poison immunity),
then I see nothing that negates the Spell/Su's duration which may continuously apply a condition (Paralyzed)
that the subject may be Immune to or Round 1 or 2, but not Round 3 or 4, if the target is not Immune to Transmutation as such (for example),
then a Transmutation Spell with Duration may continue to target them for it's entire duration.
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I would apply the "death ward" or "anti-magic field" rule to immunities: Anything that is already present is merely suppressed much like a spell in an anti-magic field, all new attempts to inflict a condition/effect you are immune to automatically fail with no lasting repercussions even if immunity later falls.
Anti-Paladin, naturally, has explicit wording to the contrary, but that is simply specific trumping general. Props to the players for thinking of removing his immunity.
As "carrier" type abilities are notably separate from "immunity" abilities in both wording and theme, it is safe to assume that the RAI of the latter is definitely not to match the former. You can argue semantics of RAW all day if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that immunity is clearly not intended to mean "track everything in case you lose immunity later". Such a thing is so much more complicated than the "just ignore it" ruling that it seems inconceivable that such a thing would be intended without being explicitly spelled out. Occam's Razor and all that.