Optimistic Gambler + Bard

[Kenneth Souther]

Would this Trait bonus apply to a Bard's Inspire Courage? or for that matter, any Bard ability that affects morale?

I guess I'm a bit confused. The performance (and assuming effects) end immediately if the bard is prevented from taking a free action each round, yet this trait appears to modify this; so if I was knocked-out, silenced, etc., whatever morale effect I had going would last for another 1-4 rounds on me (course it would end for everyone else.) Just wondering before I decide to choose it.

Trait: Optimistic Gambler (from Second Darkness)

Spoiler:

You’ve always seemed to have trouble keeping money. Worse, you always seem to have debts looming over your head. When you heard about the “Cheat the Devil and Take His Gold” gambling tournament, you felt in your gut that your luck was about to change. You’ve always been optimistic, in fact, and even though right now is one of those rare times where you don’t owe anyone any money (you just paid off a recent loan from local moneylender Lymas Smeed), you know that’ll change soon enough. Better to start amassing money now when you’re at one of those rare windfall times! You’ve set aside a gold coin for the entrance fee, and look forward to making it big—you can feel it in your bones! This time’s gonna be the big one! Your boundless optimism, even in the face of crushing situations, has always bolstered your spirit.

Benefit Effects that grant you morale bonuses persist 1d4 rounds longer than they normally would as a result.

[Dieben]

It appears that yes, any morale bonuses gained would persist 1d4 rounds beyond when they would normally end. However, it should be noted that it is unlikely for this extension to stack with the benefits granted by the Lingering Performance feat (which also shares the performance benefits with your comrades) and that any new bardic music would immediately end the remaining duration of any morale bonuses that were gained from a prior performance.

Personally, I'd advise against taking this feat unless you have an external effect (not your character) that will frequently grant a morale bonus. Many of the bard's bonuses are actually competence bonuses and as such will provide little benefit to you. Ignoring archetypes for simplicity's sake, there are only two morale bonuses you can get from a core bard. Inspire courage at 1st level and Inspire heroics at 15th level. More often than not, the unplanned causes of your performance ending be unconsciousness or a similar condition. As such, you will receive minimal benefit from the trait until 15th level as Inspire Courage's morale bonus only applies to charm and fear effects, which are seldom applied to unconscious individuals.

Hopefully, this is of some help to you and answers your question.

Sincerely yours,

~Dieben

On an unrelated note, this marks my first post. Huzzah!

[VRMH]

Dieben wrote:

any morale bonuses gained would persist 1d4 rounds beyond when they would normally end.

Actually, per the RAW the effect is sustained in its entire, not just the morale bonus. And I don't see why you couldn't let this trait "kick in" after a Lingering Performance - while the trait and the feat may do something very similar, neither provides anything resembling a bonus-type.

[Thalin]

By the raw it wouldn't; why would you feel the non-moral bonus persists?

[Morgen]

The effect that grants you a moral bonus is extended out 1d4 rounds, not just the moral bonus. If something grants you some kind of other bonus and a moral bonus, such as the bard's Inspire Courage ability, then the whole effect persists that small, insignificant extra time.

So yes it is a nice trait to have if you've got a bard in the group.

[tomorrow]

I've been running Optimistic Gambler on my Evangelist Cleric of Ragathiel(Destruction w/Rage Subdomain) and yeah, we've been reading it as any EFFECT that includes a morale bonus (of any kind) being extended 1d4 rounds.

[Thank Dog]

I don't suppose there's any clarification from Paizo on this?

[LoneKnave]

There doesn't really need to be, everybody knows optimistic gambler is broken as hell.

At the very least, it should have a line saying that it has to be a morale effect that is not originating off of you; as it is, it extends bard buffs, barbarian rages, cleric domain "smites", etc... It's abusable as hell.

[Thank Dog]

Interesting. I'm normally the one saying things are broken and I didn't consider this to be broken, just very convenient for my barbarian. Admittedly, though, he's pretty OP.