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Does Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic) even works with Vampiric touch as the example says?
I believe this metamagic feat new a serious re-wording for errata. The example assume it works for vampiric touch but the description says that makes immunities useless but still Vampiric touch description doesnt says is negative energy, nor death spell, nor inflict negative levels and above that even if the creature didn't had an immunity due Thanatopic or other ability, the spell target is a living creature which means it would check for an unvalid target if used against undead or any other non-living creature.
It seems like if Thanatopic Spell was made with Vampiric Touch 3.5 DND version, but the Pathfinder version makes no sense for Thanatopic.
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It might help to actually post the text of the ability in question.
For References:
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Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply. Undead are susceptible to spells augmented by this feat, as it retunes the negative energy to be harmful to them. A thanatopic spell that would kill a living creature (such as by giving it negative levels equal to its Hit Dice) destroys an undead (though undead such as ghosts, liches, and vampires may reform as normal). Undead affected by thanatopic spells that give negative levels automatically make their saving throws to remove negative levels after 24 hours.
Level Increase: +2 (a thanatopic spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.)
Normal: Defenses such as death ward negate death effects, negative levels, and energy drain. Undead are immune to these attacks.
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Vampiric Touch
School necromancy; Level antipaladin 3, magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3; Domain blood 3, daemon 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target living creature touched
Duration instantaneous/1 hour; see text
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. You can't gain more than the subject's current hit points + the subject's Constitution score (which is enough to kill the subject). The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.
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"Undead are susceptible to spells augmented by this feat, as it retunes the negative energy to be harmful to them."
There you go, a thanatopic vampiric touch works on undead.
"Undead are susceptible to spells augmented by this feat, as it retunes the negative energy to be harmful to them."
There you go, a thanatopic vampiric touch works on undead.
Thank you. So I guess that part you wrote overwrites the "Target: Living creature"
Yep! Though I totally get your point that vampiric touch isn't explicitly called out as a negative energy effect.
Yep! Though I totally get your point that vampiric touch isn't explicitly called out as a negative energy effect.
Yeah. That why I think either the spells need some rewording or the Thanatopic Magic because the description doesn't make much sense with the current spells description.
For example.... in that last part of thanatopic spell says: Normal: Defenses such as death ward negate death effects, negative levels, and energy drain. Undead are immune to these attacks.
But that was on 3.5 version. Pathfinder version dont negate death effects, it just gives a +4 morale save. So Im asking for a possible rewording or errata of this to clarify it.
I hate to necro this thread (10+ years old) but couldn't find anything that clarifies this. Thanatopic Spell works only in regards to death effects, energy drain, etc. but undead are not only immune to these, but also immune to anything that requires a FORT save. So since death effects and energy drain, etc. requires a FORT, undead are immune to even a Thanatopic Enervation? Seems to not jive with the intent of the metamagic feat.
The feat says it effects them, so it does.
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The feat says it effects them, so it does.
It is an example, not part of the rule. Not the first wrong example.
And even disregarding that, the feat doesn't change the target line, so it could allow Vampiric touch to bypass defenses against "death effects, negative levels, and energy drain", but it will not allow the spell to affect an undead, as it isn't a valid target.
Edit: the example
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell.
The example doesn't say that Vampiric touch will affect undead, it says it will bypass Death ward.