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I'm trying to help my wife come up with a PFS legal character, as she's been playing pre-gens and wants something of her own. her concept was taking from the internet meme "baby monkey riding a pig"... I'm at a loss as to how to pull this off. she only has enough XP for a level 3 character.
my first thought was a Halfling ranger, unusually hairy, raised in the wild by apes, who rides a boar. sort of a Tarzan theme, I think it would be hilarious to play such a disruptive, uncouth character. but the best I can tell, a ranger can't take an animal companion until level 4.
so I checked cavalier, same thing. can't take a boar as a mount until level 4.
druid CAN take a boar as a familiar, but won't be medium sized (and thus ride-able) until level 4.
barbarian doesn't get a boar mount option until level 8.
so what are my options? I can't even find a "riding boar" or "boar mount" option... I imagine I can't just have her show up to a PFS game and say, "this is my pig-friend, I befriended him and he let's me ride him."
the boar doesn't even need offensive abilities. a pig would work just as well. it's the concept.
any suggestions muchly appreciated.
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she could be 'raising' the boar for a level, not using her AC as a druid or cavalier and then at level 4 have a riding boar.
in PFS, there really isn't a mount option that would work for her to ride until that level, so she can either be patient and wait for a level or continue playing pregens, i suppose.
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Neat idea! You may want to look at a copy of the Animal Archive or Ultimate Equipment. They both have a handful of non-AC animals that you can purchase. I'm away from my books at the moment, but they may have a boar or pig you could buy and use for the levels before getting your actual animal companion. Or at least one large enough to ride.
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I view "disruptive" as more adding flavor to certain environments (say, a fancy dinner party) rather than being a jerk. it would basically make the rest of the party have to interact with the character in a different way.
I've seen some great RP in Seattle, including deaf and mute characters, characters played to be REALLY dumb (like monosyllabic caveman speech), characters that don't speak common... I appreciate the players that put some time into developing the characters' backstory, as opposed to just optimizing for damage.
so how would the "raising the boar" option work? I know in the past, I've had halflings purchase riding dogs, take the appropriate feats, etc. how would I account for a boar just following me around until the level 4 AC? a ranger class would probably work better than druid or cavalier for her style of play.
pathar - you mean they devolve into immaturity, or it's just a bad idea?
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pathar - you mean they devolve into immaturity, or it's just a bad idea?
Kind of a warning, kind of an in-joke. There was a fiasco a while back about someone who wanted to ride a big and the various legalities of it. That said, people actually seem to be reading your post and noting that you just want to come close to the concept, instead of actually executing it, so I might have been premature. ;p
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pathar - you mean they devolve into immaturity, or it's just a bad idea?Kind of a warning, kind of an in-joke. There was a fiasco a while back about someone who wanted to ride a big and the various legalities of it. That said, people actually seem to be reading your post and noting that you just want to come close to the concept, instead of actually executing it, so I might have been premature. ;p
I won't use the "R" word, but the reason pig mounts were a big issue wasn't just "riding a pig." It was more technical than that, and involved making a dog look like a pig, which would have altered how the scenario reacts to the mount. Not saying it needs rediscussed again, but wanted to clarify.
You may want to think about the Beast Master archetype for Ranger for this idea. It can get you that pig a level early and keeps a full BAB, but is still really druid-y feeling.
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I can tell you right now, if I was trying to play a diplomatic character in that scene, that character would frustrate me to no end, to the point where I might make the decision to not play at the same table as you again. If I were to play another character at the table, I might not mind so much (but I would still be annoyed at the character ruining someone else's diplomatic endeavors).
Keep in mind that disruptive characters might be fun for you to play, and some players might find them entertaining to play with, but there's a not-insignificant number of players who will feel the urge to put their hands around your throat, should you continually be "disruptive".
So again, I plead caution; do your best to read your fellow players, and figure out whether or not playing a "disruptive" character will enhance or destroy their enjoyment of the game.
I view that more as part of the game. I don't actively sabotage missions or other players (unless conflicting faction missions call for it), but the whole concept of PFS is basically "mustering" whoever is available to do the mission. there are many times where a sub-optimal group gets sent out, and that's just how it's going to be.
I don't see an uncouth character offending a high-society type as any more disruptive than a cleric in full plate blowing my rogue's stealth check in a dungeon crawl. that's just part of the game. you deal with it, maybe make an offhand remark in game (worthless dwarves!), and you adapt. I've only ever seen one game where a player (not a character) got out of hand, and that was at a con.
plus, we get more or less the same people coming out every time, it's not like I'd pull anything like that on unsuspecting players. we do know each other at least a little bit.
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You may want to think about the Beast Master archetype for Ranger for this idea. It can get you that pig a level early and keeps a full BAB, but is still really druid-y feeling.
oooooh! this looks promising. thanks!
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oooooh! this looks promising. thanks!
You may want to think about the Beast Master archetype for Ranger for this idea. It can get you that pig a level early and keeps a full BAB, but is still really druid-y feeling.
Just don't forget to pick up either Seeker of Secrets or Animal Archive for access to the Boon Companion feat: mitigating that -3 levels is pretty nice for a feat.
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Just don't forget to pick up either Seeker of Secrets or Animal Archive for access to the Boon Companion feat: mitigating that -3 levels is pretty nice for a feat.oooooh! this looks promising. thanks!
You may want to think about the Beast Master archetype for Ranger for this idea. It can get you that pig a level early and keeps a full BAB, but is still really druid-y feeling.
I have the Animal Companion, so I can grab that feat. however, I don't see anything about the Beast Master archetype giving an animal companion a level early? or does it just mean I take my companion at level 1 like a druid? a level 3 beast master would still have an effective druid level of 0.
"Animal Companion (Ex): A beast master forms a close bond with an animal companion. This ability functions like the druid animal companion ability except that the ranger's effective druid level is equal to his ranger level – 3. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on wild empathy and Handle Animal checks made regarding his animal companion. Unlike a normal ranger, a beast master's choice of animal companion is not limited to a subset of all possible animal companion choices—he may choose freely among all animal companion choices, just as a druid can."
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Okay, first of all, there's a very, very big difference in the game applying a penalty to a skill check making things difficult, and a player actively making a decision to act in a way that makes it difficult for others to do something.Second, this quote is pertinent here:
However, "that’s just what my character would do" is not a defense for behaving like a jerk.It doesn't matter how in-character you're acting; if you're making the game not fun for others, you're being a jerk, and you need to correct yourself.
Again, this is very situational, and it'll vary from player to player; some might not just roll with it, but actually ENJOY it, while it might ruin another player's entire night. If you're playing with a regular group, you'll have a better idea of what they'll take away from it, but don't think that just because you play together frequently that it means they'll be okay with it.
Again, I'm not telling you not to do it, I'm just telling you to tread cautiously.
I honestly don't see the difference between this and the character with an intelligence of 7 springing an obvious trap because he was drawn to the candy-like button. the other night I played with a borderline retarded barbarian. he was hilarious. lots of grunts and monosyllabic dialogue. he certainly didn't help the party, but he added another level of role playing.
my understanding of PFS may be incorrect. I was under the impression it truly was a "muster" sort of situation. 'you want to send six barbarians on this mission? oooookay.' it doesn't need to be optimal. it doesn't even need to be sub-optimal, it can be flat out lousy. the mission can still be completed, albeit in unconventional ways.
if there's a situation that calls for delicacy, I would love to see how a party would react to an outright savage in their party. it would make things interesting. and I've always found interesting to be a good thing.
I would rather play with an intentionally obnoxious role-played character than a sword and board optimized basher with no personality. but maybe *my* opinion doesn't matter at the table? you're basically making the argument that someone who does nothing but roll dice without interaction is somehow more important to the livelihood of the game that someone who actually, you know, ROLE PLAYS. you're just as likely to lose interested gamers by discouraging role playing and focusing on people trying to play WoW on their tabletop.
but maybe you and I disagree on what a "jerk" is...
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Alright, folks, there's no reason to be getting nasty with the discussion here. I understand your sentiment that being a roleplayer at a table that doesn't role-play so much as roll-play can be frustrating and lacking in the fun department, but I do agree with the warning of caution about how you execute it.
While I can certainly understand wanting to play the oddball of the party for "teh lolz", you need to make sure that you can still "Explore, Report, Cooperate" with your fellow Pathfinders. You also need to try to ensure that you're not deliberately sabotaging the mission just for the sake of roleplay.
Now, I'm not saying playing a "disruptive" character couldn't be done in a way that that would work, but I'll agree with SPCRedMage that you'll need to exercise caution in doing so. Tell your table beforehand that you've got a very uncouth, socially "unacceptable", loony-toon that was raised by intergalactic bears or whatnot, and ask if they're cool with it. If so, all the power to ya and hope everyone has fun.
If not, if someone expresses concern in that they're playing a diplomancer and they would appreciate you not sabotaging their schtick, work something out with them beforehand. Come to a compromise. Let their character see your uncouthness right off the bat with the mission briefing so they can come up with ways to get around that issue.
Or, failing that, at least be willing to scale back the disruptiveness in important NPC interactions that are vital to the mission and/or faction missions, then take it back up in the inter-party communications.
The thing is, we want everyone to have fun, including you, but if you walk into it with a "My way or the highway" attitude about how you play your character, both you and the rest of your table will be sorely disappointed. We encourage people to play what they want because we want everyone to have fun, but you need to be willing to compromise (as does everyone else!) to get to the mutually assured fun destination.
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A monkey riding a pig... I am not seeing a way at level 3, unless you just buy a them as pets and have them come along with you. Maybe use it as an attack theme, with a wizard or summoner, summon a boar then a monkey (or mad monkeys) as a follow-up? Hmmm... Summoner and a monkey belt? no wait.. a tiefling summoner (that looks very simian) and a boar like ride able mount?
I think the best bet may be a ranger with a purchased riding mount, or go with the mad dog barbarian (although a halfling barbarian is just ludicrous).
On concept character in general,
"Your right to swing your fist, ends where my nose begins." - Oliver Wendell HolmesConcept characters are a blast, I have a few. As long as the characters are effective agents, and do not impede on others.
If the borderline retarded barbarian is unable to restrain himself from running headlong into unknown situations, or intentionally setting off traps, etc (or the pacifist wizard refuses to contribute in combats) after the group has requested them to stop (or start), is now being a jerk, regardless if they are playing their character concept or not. They are still Pathfinders and they need to cooperate with the group, even if this means they may have to suppress some of the character's quirks.
I will never understand why anyone would assume the worst when they hear about an unusual role playing style. I *always* give that type of character the benefit of the doubt. especially after I very explicitly said I wouldn't sabotage other players. we should be encouraging active role playing, because without that we're just nerds rolling dice.
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I totally understand that some folks really do want to disrupt and ruin the status quo at the gaming table and this can be very detrimental to all involved. There can be a fine line between "roleplay" and "jerk" but I suspect that most of us know and respect the distinction.
So, now that we have established that this is a "mechanics" suggestion thread not a "philosophy" wanted thread can we get back on track?
I too like concept characters. Helps breakup the monotony of the usual suspects characters. Thinking a "Tarzan" halfling raised by wild boars certainly qualifies as unique. However, I'm not sure how this translates within the PFS format. Thinking it could be achieved with ranger or druid but not sure on specifics. Guess my comments are premature; I'll have to check my books and see what I can find. Good luck!
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From what I can tell, to be able to actually ride the boar, regardless of which class you choose, level 4 is the soonest it's going to happen. Ranger would be a legit way of making a martial focused character, though you'd end up having to wait until 4 to even get the companion, though with Boon Companion at 5, it'd be a full level, medium sized, boar.
I think Mad Dog Barbarian is also a great way to go, as you get your companion immediately, still have fast movement, and instead of waiting until 4th for the companion, you wait until 4th to get a reduced rage. You still get a martial focused character, with the added flavor of being a wild child, and a full level companion without having to blow a feat on it.
If you're alright with a less martial and more caster-y type, there's always the Boar Shaman, which gives you added benefits to wildshaping, summoning, and dealing with boars. Plus, totem transformation is pretty sweet. Add to that, the versatility of a Druid's casting options, and you've got a pretty solidly effective character.
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I would like to stick to a martial character. she's just not as comfortable playing the more complicated ones. That said the mad dog barbarian might actually be easier to play than a standard barbarian, no raging to worry about.
kicking around some backstory, definitely like the "wild child"... maybe as a child, she saved the swine from the butcher, killing him in the process, and was raised in the wild? definitely a filthy character, like pigpen from peanuts.
how could I get away with her using an oversized cleaver, stolen from the butcher? id there even a weapon similar to a cleaver? handaxe maybe? severe penalties for using too big a weapon, is there a feat? her only other weaponry would be primitive, club, sling etc.
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I would like to stick to a martial character. she's just not as comfortable playing the more complicated ones. That said the mad dog barbarian might actually be easier to play than a standard barbarian, no raging to worry about.
They actually do get rage, but not until level 4. This means that she'll have a level of play to get used to the character's build before adding on the concept of Rage.
kicking around some backstory, definitely like the "wild child"... maybe as a child, she saved the swine from the butcher, killing him in the process, and was raised in the wild? definitely a filthy character, like pigpen from peanuts.
A great concept! Definite flavor to work off of with how the character might view certain "civilized" folks as being more of a "savage" than one such as herself. Perhaps looking down at those that would harm animals "just to make a living"? Maybe she's vegitarian? Might be an interesting character quirk.
how could I get away with her using an oversized cleaver, stolen from the butcher? id there even a weapon similar to a cleaver? handaxe maybe? severe penalties for using too big a weapon, is there a feat? her only other weaponry would be primitive, club, sling etc.
Rather than using a weapon that's actually oversized, perhaps consider a Greataxe. It's a 2-hander, which is generally not a bad choice for a Barbarian, and you could fluff it as looking more like a meat cleaver than a real axe. Also, better damage than a 1-handed axe for a small character.
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They actually do get rage, but not until level 4. This means that she'll have a level of play to get used to the character's build before adding on the concept of Rage.
eep, yeah I meant "right away"... let her get settled into the character before a bunch more mechanics get thrown at her.
A great concept! Definite flavor to work off of with how the character might view certain "civilized" folks as being more of a "savage" than one such as herself. Perhaps looking down at those that would harm animals "just to make a living"? Maybe she's vegitarian? Might be an interesting character quirk.
yeah, there is a lot of fun that could be had with this. potential volatile interactions, I would love to see her paired up with a paladin or something.
Rather than using a weapon that's actually oversized, perhaps consider a Greataxe. It's a 2-hander, which is generally not a bad choice for a Barbarian, and you could fluff it as looking more like a meat cleaver than a real axe. Also, better damage than a 1-handed axe for a small character.
that's exactly what I was thinking. give her a properly sized weapon (although a largish one, she is a barbarian) but flavor it as something else. I just didn't know if that was going to cause problems if she pulls out her "cleaver" in a fight.
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yeah, there is a lot of fun that could be had with this. potential volatile interactions, I would love to see her paired up with a paladin or something.
As the whole mess earlier previously cautioned, just make sure you do so responsibly and I see no reason why that couldn't be a lot of fun for everyone.
I personally have a "Paladin" of Asmodeus (Lawful Neutral Magus/Wizard) that is just all sorts of hilarious to play in a party with characters devoted to good gods. Especially characters that are actually Paladins.
that's exactly what I was thinking. give her a properly sized weapon (although a largish one, she is a barbarian) but flavor it as something else. I just didn't know if that was going to cause problems if she pulls out her "cleaver" in a fight.
Expect table variation on this one because you might run into someone who's a diehard rules-lawyer that objects. Before the start of the game, check with the GM and make sure they're cool with it (you'll probably find most are gonna be a-okay with it), and when you run into the one or two that don't like it just accept that you have to call it an axe for the scenario and roll with it.
For the most part, I don't see it causing any problems as the two objects in question are very similar things, and worst comes to worst you could always describe it as a "Small-sized greataxe that looks suspiciously like a meat cleaver."
Honestly, you could even go with a character that has what is obviously a greataxe but the character insists that it's a cleaver while the player explains out-of-character that it's not and that the character is a bit crazy.
On a side note, if you'd like any help working out the build, feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to give my input and advice to help make the character work and feel the way you want it while staying within the Organized Play guidelines. :)
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I think the best bet may be a ranger with a purchased riding mount, or go with the mad dog barbarian (although a halfling barbarian is just ludicrous).
There are those people who have encountered a halfling barbarian, and don't think it is ridiculous. And that is only among the survivors...