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I've seen it played with on a few different threads, but I'm just wondering what the rules say happens to a creature (or creatures) inside one of the various pit spells when a wall spell is placed flat over the opening... And then the pit spell is dismissed... With wall of fire, I assume the only thing that happens is that the creature takes fire damage, but what happens with the wall of stone, or force wall? A DC strength check to break the wall? If the check is failed, do damage dice even have to be rolled? If so, how many, and what happens to the creature, or the wall for that matter? Is the wall moved after damage is dealt? Or is the unfortunate creature crushed? I know what would happen in REAL life, but real life rules cannot be found in a handbook.
You can't really place a Wall of Fire horizontally, as the effect states that:
"opaque sheet of flame up to 20 ft. long/level or a ring of fire with a radius of up to 5 ft./two levels; either form 20 ft. high"
With a Wall of Stone/Force, I'd go with the same rules as Enlarge Person, in that it expands until it cannot do so anymore, so trapping the poor fellow, but not really hurting it/him/her/combination.
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You can't really place a Wall of Fire horizontally, as the effect states that:
"opaque sheet of flame up to 20 ft. long/level or a ring of fire with a radius of up to 5 ft./two levels; either form 20 ft. high"
With a Wall of Stone/Force, I'd go with the same rules as Enlarge Person, in that it expands until it cannot do so anymore, so trapping the poor fellow, but not really hurting it/him/her/combination.
You know, that's what I originally thought (otherwise that combination could potentially be extremely powerful against people who can't teleport or climb out of the pit within one turn.) Then a buddy of mine pointed out that the wall isn't doing anything but sitting there. It's the ground that has to return to its original position, as the magic there is gone.
You know, that's what I originally thought (otherwise that combination could potentially be extremely powerful against people who can't teleport or climb out of the pit within one turn.) Then a buddy of mine pointed out that the wall isn't doing anything but sitting there. It's the ground that has to return to its original position, as the magic there is gone.You can't really place a Wall of Fire horizontally, as the effect states that:
"opaque sheet of flame up to 20 ft. long/level or a ring of fire with a radius of up to 5 ft./two levels; either form 20 ft. high"
With a Wall of Stone/Force, I'd go with the same rules as Enlarge Person, in that it expands until it cannot do so anymore, so trapping the poor fellow, but not really hurting it/him/her/combination.
It is still the magical effect that does the pushing. Remember that this is an extradimensional hole, you can cast it on a ship (or a flat roof, , and it functions just as well as if it was cast on solid ground. It isn't ground coming back, but the spell slowly coming to a halt. To quote the spell text:
"and does not otherwise displace the original underlying material"
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You know, that's what I originally thought (otherwise that combination could potentially be extremely powerful against people who can't teleport or climb out of the pit within one turn.) Then a buddy of mine pointed out that the wall isn't doing anything but sitting there. It's the ground that has to return to its original position, as the magic there is gone.You can't really place a Wall of Fire horizontally, as the effect states that:
"opaque sheet of flame up to 20 ft. long/level or a ring of fire with a radius of up to 5 ft./two levels; either form 20 ft. high"
With a Wall of Stone/Force, I'd go with the same rules as Enlarge Person, in that it expands until it cannot do so anymore, so trapping the poor fellow, but not really hurting it/him/her/combination.
It is still the magical effect that does the pushing. Remember that this is an extradimensional hole, you can cast it on a ship (or a flat roof, , and it functions just as well as if it was cast on solid ground. It isn't ground coming back, but the spell slowly coming to a halt. To quote the spell text:
"and does not otherwise displace the original underlying material"
That is actually a brilliant point that clears up every question I had. Thanks!
I look to Wall of Iron as the basis for my decision.
If you desire, the wall can be created vertically resting on a flat surface but not attached to the surface, so that it can be tipped over to fall on and crush creatures beneath it. The wall is 50% likely to tip in either direction if left unpushed. Creatures can push the wall in one direction rather than letting it fall randomly. A creature must make a DC 40 Strength check to push the wall over. Creatures with room to flee the falling wall may do so by making successful Reflex saves. Any Large or smaller creature that fails takes 10d6 points of damage while fleeing from the wall. The wall cannot crush Huge and larger creatures.
So what I do, is a Strength check to burst the wall and damage. If they succeed the check, they take half damage, failure is full damage. The following round, the can try to burst again, but are pinned/held and take crushing damage equal to half the initial. A successful strength check on following rounds doesn't halve the crushing damage, but does free them from the wall and prevents further damage.
Each wall has it's own burst DC which is stated in the spell description.
Wall of Ice - DC 15 + Caster Level
Wall of Stone - DC 20 + 2 per inch of thickness
Wall of Iron - DC 25 + 2 per inch of thickness
As for damage, It's a little trickier. Wall of Ice grows thicker with every level gained, while Stone and Iron only grow thicker every 4 levels. So to keep it mostly fair, I make Ice 1d6 per inch of thickness, and Stone/Iron 4d6 per inch of thickness. I disregard the 10d6 that Iron stipulates in the spell as it doesn't account for heavier walls.
Creative Director
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This is certainly a creative use for the spells, but it's also well beyond the intent of the spell. I'd say that if you create a wall over a pit in this manner, the pit's new opening simply shifts up to the top of the wall—the pit stays the same size, it just shifts upward enough so that the upper edge is still flush with the "surface" above. Then when the pit spell ends, things within are deposited atop the recently-created wall.
Going with the "cap the victim in place in the pit" option can be fun, though... fun enough that it should probably be it's own specialized spell.
And anyway, the create pit spells are already arguably too good for the levels they're all at anyway. They don't need help being better. ;-)
James, you just wanted to head off the inevitable question in your thread huh? :P
I know I'm necroing this but I have a question.
If you let the pit shift up a bit so that creatures appear on top of the wall, does that make create pit + wall of stone into an instant elevator if you cast them in a cavern?
I know I'm necroing this but I have a question.
If you let the pit shift up a bit so that creatures appear on top of the wall, does that make create pit + wall of stone into an instant elevator if you cast them in a cavern?
I think this could work but it would be burning a second level spell and a fith level spell when spiderclimb or a rope and pitons could do this much easier. Or you could make a staircase with stone shape as one third or 4th level spell if you didn't have rope. OR just use dimension door. I don't think this would be the ideal way but it could work.