| soupturtle |
I was looking at the monstrous physique line of spells (inspire by this very nice guide to the various polymorph spells) and decided to try to build a primary melee combatant around these spells. This character would be a perfect back-up character for my current summoner (strong melee presence + utility casting), or otherwise something I'd really want to play in a future campaign.
Basically, I decided that my priorities are as such:
- Access to monstrous physique 2 ASAP, for the amazing four-armed gargoyle form (6 primary natural attacks and flight)
- As high as feasible base attack bonus and caster level.
- The dragon style and dragon ferocity feats with feral combat training.
This leads me to a class layout as such:
1 unarmed fighter / 5 transmuter wizard / 3 eldritch knight / 1 master of many styles monk / 7 eldritch knight
(I'm unlikely to ever play at higher levels)
The double martial class dip (fighter and monk) might look a bit strange, but there is no single dip that gives me all martial weapons (for EK) and access to dragon ferocity, as I need to get either dragon ferocity or its prerequisite stunning fist as a bonus feat, since I don't want to bother with the 13 wis required for stunning fist.
ability scores (20 pts):
str 17, dex 14, con 14, int 14, wis 10, cha 8
traits: magical knack, ?
feats:
1. power attack, toughness (human bonus), improved unarmed strike (fighter bonus), dragon style (fighter)
2. scribe scroll (wizard)
3. arcane armor training
5. weapon focus claws
6. craft wondrous item (wizard)
7. feral combat training, arcane strike (eldritch knight)
9. dimensional agility
10. stunning fist (monk), dragon ferocity (monk)
11. dimensional assault
12. martial versatility: feral combat training (eldritch knight)
13. dimensional dervish
15. quicken spell
Offensively I think I should be fine whenever I can cast one of the monstrous physique spells (or alter self at levels 4&5). I can also carry some two-handed backup weapons to deal with DR, as in monstrous physique form you can use those just fine. I'd probably wield a reach weapon, cast monstrous physique in round one, try to position myself to get an AoO, and then drop the weapon and go for full attacks from round 2 onwards. I'd look to get boosts of speed and regularly cast heroism on myself.
Defense is a bit less impressive, which is why I decided on arcane armor training. A mithral chain shirt may not be better than mage armor by itself, but armor is the cheapest thing to enchant with extra AC bonuses, and I need as many of those as I can get. If I ever make it to casting quickened spells, I'll either switch to bracers of armor or deal with the miss chance. Whenever I can get shield or mirror image cast before combat I'll probably be fine, but when I can't my AC will be iffy. Magic circle against evil should help as well, as should false life.
So, what do people think? What can I do to improve my build? Any cool tricks I've missed, or glaring weaknesses I've overlooked?
I've looked at a sorcerer/dragon disciple build as well, but the delayed access to MP1 and MP2 by 2 levels is a big deal at mid levels, and something the strength bonus cannot make up for. It also has has fewer feats which gives it a hard time getting dragon ferocity, feral combat training and arcane strike, and it cannot get martial versatility at all, which together with the slightly lower base attack bonus pretty much wipes out the advantage of the strength bonus. I did some sample damage calculations, which showed the eldritch knight coming out on top up to about level 14 (especially when considering the eldritch knight has dimensional dervish at that level), where most adventure paths are about wrapping up.
| carn |
you do the monk for +2 con, because thats what would give wis 13.
alchemist gets monstrous physique at lev 10, has +1 BAB compared to your build, can wear light armor free and medium armor for 1 feat, can use some discoveries for the necessary feats via internal alchemist and gets sneak vie vivisectionist.
The 2 level disadvantage of getting montrous later can be somewhat lessened by mutagen from level 1 :).
| soupturtle |
@carn: Yeah, that's actually a fair point. Although without the monk I would also have to spend two feats for stunning fist and dragon ferocity, which would pretty much wipe out the dimensional agility feat line. And the +2 to all saves from the monk level is nice as well, as without that my saves aren't great. Still, a level without bab or caster level is pretty poor, so I might be better off with avoiding the monk level.
As for a single class alchemist: that is a strong option, yes. Gets MP1 at the same time and MP2 one level later. It would be hard/impossible to get dragon ferocity as an alchemist, but mutagens make up for that I imagine, and alchemists do get most of the other good buff spells as well, although their list lacks mirror image and magic circle against evil. For some reason, I don't quite like the idea of playing an alchemist as much though. The flavor doesn't really fit what I'm thinking off.
@bbt: Unarmed fighter doesn't actually get you access to dragon ferocity. You get one style feat for free, so can get dragon style, but dragon ferocity has stunning fist as a pre-req, which an unarmed fighter with <13 wis cannot get. You might be able to get the style as a regular feat and ferocity as a bonus, but I actually don't think unarmed fighter can get the 2nd and 3rd feats in the style chain as a bonus feat. Looking at the wording of the unarmed fighter's bonus feats and the master of many style's bonus feats (and keeping in mind those are from the same book, so would likely have been worded consistently) it seems as if only the first feat of the three counts as a 'style feat'.
edit: I just read internal alchemist for the first time. Stunning fist as a discovery, that's a great way to dragon ferocity. Although it doesn't actually say you do not have to meet the prerequisites, which probably means you need the 13 wis. As well as the bab +8. Probably worth it, though.
| soupturtle |
You mean for my current build, or as an alchemist? For my current build I think I prefer the current level configuration.
For an alchemist, it's definitely worth considering, although I would be wary of delaying spells. The alchemist may get spell access at almost the same levels as the eldritch knight build, but gets fewer castings. My build can cast monstrous physique 4 times a day at level 10 (2 +1 school bonus +1 bonded item), an alchemist 10 can cast it only once. (I'm unlikely to have a +4 int item at level 10, I think).
It definitely looks as if an alchemist would fill the same role as my current character and do a better job though. I'm just a little bit wary that I might end up as a standard beast alchemist who occasionally casts a monstrous physique spell, instead of as a primary shapeshifter.