Can you use total defense when unarmed?


Rules Questions


OK, I know I'm going to open a can of worms here, because it's a 'flavor' vs. 'RAW' question, but the Rules forum tends to give you the best answers on rules interpretations, in spite of the fact that we all then get yelled at because it's not RAW.

Situation: You're dropped buck nekkid on an island, and a wheezy kobold with a rusty sword attacks you.

Can you go total defense for the +4 AC? Both RAW and 'common sense' say, "Yes," because you'd just dance out of his reach.

Now, are there situations where you, as a GM, wouldn't allow total defense for someone with no way to parry? I'm thinking that there are now two kobolds flanking you, or that you've been backed into a corner so you can't jump back out of the way any more. RAW still gives you the +4 through the miracle of omission (nothing says you don't). 'Common sense' now gets much vaguer on the subject. How, exactly, are you dodging when there's nowhere to go? If you had a shield or a dagger or something, the +4 makes sense because you're blocking the blows instead of avoiding them. But what if you've got nothing?

Just a thought experiment. Hope I don't annoy too many people by asking.


I would say that you could as it gives you a +4 DODGE BONUS. Meaning you aren't relying on armor, weapons, or magic items to avoid the blows.

Grand Lodge

What are you talking about?

There is no reason you can't take a total defense action while unarmed.

Sounds like something that would be done in just such an occasion.


pfsrd wrote:
You can defend yourself as a standard action. You get a +4 dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round. Your AC improves at the start of this action. You can't combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat. You can't make attacks of opportunity while using total defense.

It's a dodge bonus. Looks fine to me.

As for the question of dodging while surrounded; when you use your dodge bonus you don't (can't!) leave your five foot square and the kobolds can't enter your square. As far as I'm concerned your dodge still works. Unless they actually grapple you, then you're screwed :-).

Grand Lodge

RAW says yes.

No question about it.


What these guys said. Of course you can full-defense and get your +4 dodge bonus. You do not take up a full 5'cube of space. The empty space in your square you occupy is what you are dodging in.

Now, can a gelatinous cube go on full-defense? (Hint: yes) And how exactly does it dodge? I have no idea.

Grand Lodge

Well, a Gelatinous Cube can make unarmed strikes.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Well, a Gelatinous Cube can make unarmed strikes.

Technically, they make attacks with natural weapons (slam). They would provoke if making an unarmed strike. (Due to not having IUS)

Grand Lodge

Tarantula wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Well, a Gelatinous Cube can make unarmed strikes.
Technically, they make attacks with natural weapons (slam). They would provoke if making an unarmed strike. (Due to not having IUS)

Indeed. They can make both.


I don't think NobodysHome was questioning what RAW said, but rather the logical justification of it.

As mentioned already, it's a dodge bonus. The logical reason why total defense should work is that the person is focusing all their time and effort into avoiding attacks. Adding some offense significantly drops a person's ability to be defensive.

For instance, if someone's playing a game of dodgeball, if they just sit around avoiding shots and never trying to hit anyone themselves, they're going to be a huge pain to hit (aside from a waste of flesh).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Logical justification has no place in a discussion of rules :)

Sczarni

Funny thing about the Gelatinous Cube using unarmed strikes is that without the IUS feat it can only deal non-lethal damage.

As for the OP, I think everyone else has already answered it. Other useful ways to utilize Total Defense would be to cancel out the -4 AC you get when prone, standing, and provoking attacks of opportunity. Or, ready an action to drop prone and go Total Defense when you see a whole bunch of archers aiming your way (effectively +8 AC). Do it behind an ally and you're +12 AC.

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