RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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| 14 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are some spells which can counter or dispel certain diametically-opposed spells, specified in the spell description. For instance, bless counters and dispels bane.
Now, if you use bless to counter bane, the counterspelling rules say that you cast a modified version of it which produces no effect other than to counter bane. So if only the front half of the party was being targeted by bane but they were all in range of your bless, you couldn't use bless to counterspell and also give folks in a back a +1 to attacks/saves.
So what about dispelling?
That is, if only one party member is currently affected by bane, and I cast bless, do other party members in range get the normal effects of bless or is the dispel on that one party member the only thing that happens?
Please click the "FAQ" flag on the upper-right part of this post, unless you have a clear answer from the rules. Thanks!
if you are countering a spell, you counter spell... you dont actually cast spell. But, i'll faq it for curiosities sake
Of course not and you don't want it to. Unless you want enemy casters holding till after you cast haste to cast slow on your party.
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If the same target is affected by both haste and slow, or bless and bane, or any pair of these opposing spells, the second spell has the effect of dispelling the first without effect itself. Both spells on the same target cancel each other out.
The caster isn't casting any differently, or targeting any differently. It's just that if any target is affected by a spell while already being affected by its opposite, then both spells go away.
This means you don't have to add all the benefits of haste then add the drawbacks of slow, both spells end for that creature as soon as the second takes effect.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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It worked! Thanks, Paizo!
No, all of your spell is used to counter all of the targeted spell, there is no "spillover" from your spell that you can apply to your allies.
For example, if an enemy sorcerer's slow spell affects your fighter ally, and you cast haste as a dispel on slow, the slow ends and nobody gains haste. The same would be true regardless of how many of your allies were affected by that slow spell.
—Pathfinder Design Team, today
That's a bit strange...
From this FAQ entry, it's possible for one person to be under the effects of two "diametrically opposed" spells. A PC can be both baned and blessed, both hasted and slowed, because, it seems the two opposing effects don't automatically cancel each other out when they are affecting the same person?
It also seems to contradict the rules on opposed spells:
Spells with Opposite Effects: Spells with opposite effects apply normally, with all bonuses, penalties, or changes accruing in the order that they apply. Some spells negate or counter each other. This is a special effect that is noted in a spell's description.
-Matt
For example, if an enemy sorcerer's slow spell affects your fighter ally, and you cast haste as a dispel on slow, the slow ends and nobody gains haste.
What if you just cast haste normally, targeting the fighter in addition to some other people?
The other people get hasted, of course, but the fighter:
A) takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves
B) gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves
C) is staggered and can take only a single move action or standard action each turn
D) would be granted an extra attack if he could make a full attack action (which he can't)
E) assuming his normal speed is 30', he would be able to move at 45' (half normal = 15' from slow, increased by 30' from haste)
Correct?
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Answered in FAQ
I just realized this: You guys are posting in the threads when they get answered? THAT'S FANTASTIC!
You guys rule.
So to speak! ;)
There's nothing more shameful than the unintended pun.
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Hang on a mo...!
Party caster casts haste on all five party members. The rogue scouts ahead and fails his save against the enemy caster's slow. The rogue is nowhere near the rest of his party.
Is the FAQ saying that the rest of the party also lose haste?
If so, how? By what mechanism? Surely a spell cannot affect targets beyond its range!
I've always run it as any creature affected by one who is subsequently successfully targeted by the other loses the first and the second has no further affect on that creature, but otherwise operates normally on other creatures.
Is the FAQ saying this is not the case? Or is it talking about specifically casting the second spell to deliberately dispel the first, as opposed to trying to cast the second spell normally?
If so, this means that a creature could be simultaneously affected by both haste and slow!
For example, if an enemy sorcerer's slow spell affects your fighter ally, and you cast haste as a dispel on slow, the slow ends and nobody gains haste.What if you just cast haste normally, targeting the fighter in addition to some other people?
The other people get hasted, of course, but the fighter:
A) takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves
B) gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves
C) is staggered and can take only a single move action or standard action each turn
D) would be granted an extra attack if he could make a full attack action (which he can't)
E) assuming his normal speed is 30', he would be able to move at 45' (half normal = 15' from slow, increased by 30' from haste)Correct?
From the CRB under Spells, Special Effects:
"Spells with Opposite EffectsSpells with opposite effects apply normally, with all bonuses, penalties, or changes accruing in the order that they apply. Some spells negate or counter each other. This is a special effect that is noted in a spell's description."
Note that Haste doesn't say it "nullifies" Slow, just that it Counters or Dispels Slow. To be used as a counterspell, Haste must be cast as a readied action while the enemy is casting Slow. To be used as a dispel, it must be deliberately used as a dispel.
Suppose your fighter steps into a room. An enemy spellcaster with a readied action casts slow and affects him. Now the rest of your party enters and, lastly, your mage casts Haste.
According to the Rules, he can cast this two ways.
One, the normal way, is to haste his entire group. The new FAQ entry does not address this, but reading what's already in the CRB, you would apply Haste separately to each ally. In the fighter's case, the Haste is applied after the Slow, with the effects as you describe them. The rest of your allies are Hasted.
Two, you could use Haste as a targeted dispel against the Slow. Doing so, according to the new FAQ, means you treat it like a Dispel Magic, aimed at the Slow, with no residual Haste applied to anyone.
Hang on a mo...!
Party caster casts haste on all five party members. The rogue scouts ahead and fails his save against the enemy caster's slow. The rogue is nowhere near the rest of his party.
Is the FAQ saying that the rest of the party also lose haste?
If so, how? By what mechanism? Surely a spell cannot affect targets beyond its range!
I've always run it as any creature affected by one who is subsequently successfully targeted by the other loses the first and the second has no further affect on that creature, but otherwise operates normally on other creatures.
Is the FAQ saying this is not the case? Or is it talking about specifically casting the second spell to deliberately dispel the first, as opposed to trying to cast the second spell normally?
If so, this means that a creature could be simultaneously affected by both haste and slow!
Dispels are not accidental, you must deliberately cast it as a dispel. You can only use it against targets within range. In this case, if the enemy caster targets his Slow to dispel the Rogue's Haste, the effects cannot apply to the rogue's allies outside the range.
If he simply casts Slow on the rogue, then first apply the Haste effects, then the Slow, as per the rule I quoted in my previous post right above this one.
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I know what your saying, but:-
Slow counters and dispels haste.
Note that it doesn't say that it may be used to counter or dispel, just that it counters and dispels!
This leads me to believe that they cancel out if on the same creature, as an unavoidable automatic effect, without any knowledge or consent of the caster of the second spell.
Another reason to believe this is that these two spells have had this wording since 1st ed, when readied actions and counterspelling as we know it didn't exist!