Roleplaying getting magically turned evil


Advice

Sovereign Court

So we were in a high-level custom dungeon crawl on Sunday, and my wizard stepped into an alcove that made him evil. (It also changed his gender, but that's irrelevant, and soon to be remedied with Break Enchantment.) Now, it happened that he turned back to good immediately after, but if he hadn't, what do you guys think is appropriate for a newly evil character? My first thought was to stab my party in the back during the next boss battle, but with no assurance that the boss would then make me his general or something, that would be too risky. Of course, he would have to hide it from the other PCs...

Long story short: if your GM turns you evil, is a TPK at a dramatically appropriate moment acceptable?


MAYBE. Evil =/= stab my party members in the back... Of course, if being general is a better job, then sure... Unless he still has loyalty to his party, then he might still help. He's might be a meanie to people in town if they don't give him what he wants.

Scarab Sages

I would look at what your relationships were with the other party members prior to the change. Just because you turn evil doesnt mean you just go off like a psychopath.

Your a wizard, so you are a thinker. A character that has to study without end for the rest of his life. (sure, I am exaggerating a tad) But over all, you use your mind for things other than just spells right?

So use it for this situation as well. Ask the typical questions to yourself that this kind of change would inspire...

Who would I kill of the party members

What kind of death would I deliver to them

When would be the best time

Where would be the most advantageous place to do so.
Saying that you would kill them in the next boss battle is hardly the kind of thing a thinking wizard would say to himself. There might not be a big bad boss, after killing the group, the boss might kill you if there was one. etc...)

Why would I kill them in the first place (motivations)

how would I escape if my plan failed (and be prepared to remove this character out of the campaign if such a failure occured)

Just a few ideas to think about...

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

"Whoa, are you alright?"

"I'm fine."

*adventure continues*

"Why did you set them on fire?"

"It seemed the most expedient method of dealing with them."

*at town*

"That was kind of harsh man."

"They will have to toughen up some day."

etc. etc.

Grand Lodge

You're confusing "Evil" with "Psychosis", which is a specific affliction in the game with its own drawbacks. So have a deep breath and relax, you're not entirely shot here.

Evil does not mean stupid.

Evil is, more than anything, self-interested. You'll betray the party all right --- as long as the benefit offered is greater than the risk you'd take. What benefit do you get for backstabbing a party member while they're busy defending your evil ass in a major battle? None.

For the time being, though, depending on your level, you could be the most powerful spellcaster in a wide birth. That means you get what you want now, and if those peasants have an issue with it, DIE WEAKLINGS! DIE! DIE! MUAHAAHHAHAHA...ahem, oh, pardon me.


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Well, as others have said evil isn't really crazy or stupid. In fact you have a high intelligence so your wizard might just plot to get a get a greater share of wealth from whatever source. He(she now?) might change character and come up with new goals, radically change relationships, and might get into arguments with things you might not have before. The big thing is a movement toward selfishness instead of selflessness. Evil doesn't include insane murder or betrayal, but if you have something to get out of it you may consider it...

I usually role play it as something subtle. Where a character might be charitable he might start to consider theft. He might start to use diplomacy in more ruthless manners(seduction, lying, extortion.) It doesn't mean you have to act aggressively even. He might start to consider revenge much more quickly, and be more willing to take a savage path of life while being mostly the same person with similar goals where applicable.

If it was a trap in a dungeon its intention may have been to force you to be evil and kill your friends on sight in a weird. crazy, bizzaro way. Magic is weird sometimes.

Edit: I think there was a spell in 3.5 that described it.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

I'm pretty sure that I recognize that trap. It's in an "old school" adventure, which doesn't give needless detail about the trap's intent. We can assume that its creator thought such a change would be amusing.

Intelligent evil typically sees others as tools or rivals, not as friends. The evil character isn't likely to suddenly turn on his allies, but may decide to betray them once they're no longer any use to him. He may plan to let them get killed once they've eliminated the adventure's "big bad".

If he's ambitious, he may prefer to take care of the other party members: After all, tough (and gullible) allies can be hard to come by, and they will serve him well when the time comes for him to seize power. He is likely to knock their power down a notch, ensuring that they lack the means to oppose him if they should choose to be foolishly idealistic. Paladins and Good clerics probably won't last long unless they're truly gullible patsies.

Silver Crusade

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Along the lines of what TOZ said:

Your goals don't have to change. Change how far you're willing to go to attain them.

Because nothing is forbidden anymore.


Remember that good/evil isn't everything... There's law/chaos too

If you turned LE you can easyly have friends as ling as they are usefull. A LE char still have a ruleset, the ruleset may just he diffrent from the norm.

A CE char on the other hand may wreck havoc for no reason, or (with high int) go for a crazy goal not caring how to get there..


I have to agree with the earlier statement that evil =/= psycho/murderer. Lets look at your character, he's now evil but he's also an adventurer by trade chances are he'll make more money/survive with the rest of the party along than he would alone.

Being evil means that he may conspire to get say a party paladin who's interfering with his plans killed but he'd probably do so in a way that would avoid implicating him openly to prevent further loss of assets(party members) or the threat of open combat against his equally badass friends.

Alternatively he'd encourage the party to turn to evil themselves subtly. That way he'd be safe and get his desires fulfilled. He'd probably become more arrogant around common folk and to a certain degree cruel or pragmatic, for example if you capture an enemy alive he'd kill them rather than trying to keep them contained if it was easier. He'd probably be okay with the idea of threatening or harming people's families and loved ones to get what he or the party needed and he would be unrepentant about it.

Scarab Sages

Evil =/= psychotic or stupid.

A suddenly evil character is not going to destroy the support mechanisms that are keeping him alive and advancing his goals.

He may start making long range plans to take advantage of his companions, but those should only come to pass when it is advantageous and may not be immediately obvious.

Grand Lodge

Mikaze wrote:

Along the lines of what TOZ said:

Your goals don't have to change. Change how far you're willing to go to attain them.

Because nothing is forbidden anymore.

This is my favorite summation ever of how to play an evil character.


There is one important thing missing here... the character became evil, but was (s)he Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic?

This would probably determine a lot about his/her future actions. Lawful Evil probably wouldn't stab the party in the back, but I think Chaotic Evil would be fairly likely to.


Think of a purple smurf and hop around saying, GNAP, GNAP!


Shalafi2412 wrote:
Think of a purple smurf and hop around saying, GNAP, GNAP!

GNAP GNAP GNAP!


Hey, how did I get turned into a Smurfette?


And another Smurf?? LOL!

Liberty's Edge

Really depends on the other half of the alignment.

Evil also doesn't erase your personality. You may still have affection for your comrades or some sense of comradery. It just means you're not going to risk your life solely to do good, that you're suddenly entirely motivated by selfish goals: wealth, power, etc.

While if you were Chaotic before, yes you might suddenly become the Joker, or an agent of anarchy. But if you were NG or LG prior you might just be a little more mercenary with no empathy or mercy.


GNAP! GNAP!


sMURF


Mikaze wrote:

Along the lines of what TOZ said:

Your goals don't have to change. Change how far you're willing to go to attain them.

Because nothing is forbidden anymore.

This is a really nice, succinct way of putting it.

I think a good example of NE/CE would be Shane from The Walking Dead. He does whatever he thinks he has to do to suit his needs, and his needs are selfish. He doesn't consider himself evil, just wise to how the world works. But he sacrifices others - not "whenever he gets the chance," like some crazy person, but "whenever it's the most expedient thing to do."

YMMV.


Or be Tarquin from Order of the Stick.

Or Belkar.

Why must a majority of suggestions be "I'll get rid of them as conveniently as possible."

Who's to say he bluffs about being good (being evil the whole time), finishing the adventure, then retiring a super b****s evil overlord? I'm betting by level 15 or so (typical retirement level?) you can already take on a lot of stuff.


Here's a question, would you wizard want to be changed back?

Grand Lodge

Think of Lucy from Dracula.

That is a good example of being magically turned evil.


Would you mind elaborating a bit on this adventure? What kind of place are you in now? Have you seen any other traps? Describe the general location.


Reynard_the_fox wrote:

So we were in a high-level custom dungeon crawl on Sunday, and my wizard stepped into an alcove that made him evil. (It also changed his gender, but that's irrelevant, and soon to be remedied with Break Enchantment.) Now, it happened that he turned back to good immediately after, but if he hadn't, what do you guys think is appropriate for a newly evil character? My first thought was to stab my party in the back during the next boss battle, but with no assurance that the boss would then make me his general or something, that would be too risky. Of course, he would have to hide it from the other PCs...

Long story short: if your GM turns you evil, is a TPK at a dramatically appropriate moment acceptable?

Take your motivations or interests as a good guy. Look at them and then keep the motivations ... But change what they are attached to to selfish motives.

Sovereign Court

Hmm, the subtle corruption of my party seems an interesting route to go down... though like I said at the top, he stepped through the arch again and so isn't evil anymore. A 13th level wizard certainly has enough power to carve out his own little kingdom once those pesky Sarenrae worshipers in his party are dead or subservient. >: )


Huh... How'd they even know the wizard was evil? I like all these possibilities and outcomes. Would vary wildly with who you were playing with.

A 13th level wizard is very capable of forcing people into worshipping or serving him. He's more powerful than many BBEGs and very capable of doing so with enchantment, and conjuration. Or whatever else he feels like doing.


first of all, unless you became chaotic evil, you don't just commit evil acts without reason.

if the party is killing monsters and thwarting people you don't care about, and you are profiting from the endevour why would you care if they get courrupted? why would you want to kill them or stop them?

if you became lawful evil, the party might never find out you were evil. you would commit your crimes, discreetly, you would probably try to get rich off your evil schemes and maintain the image of a hero and profiting from it, your group serves as a great front for your more neferious deeds. The LE person would most likley never betray the group, lawful evil tends to honarable, killing your friends is a not good long term stragegy, nor would it breed trust in other accomplices you might have. you are mobster, there are alot of mobsters that became politician, being a mobster is not about burning bridges, its really about trying to keep a low profile, or a good profile, while you do you evil business. in general the idea behind lawful evil, is that people don't know you are evil.

if you were neutral evil, then maybe small signs would show, but for the most part you would go with the flow, but certainly more than the LE person you would sell the out the moment you though you could profit from it. you probably wouln't long term goal oriented as the lE person would. so you would probaly be on the lookout for the first opportunity to profit from there demise if they activities werent benfiting as much. here the NE doenss't so much care other people know they are evil, and certainly the first time can profit safelty from doing evil, they are going to take, a person like this, would certainly be a threat to stab the group in the back and wouldnt be as careful in hiding thier evil nature, as a LE person would.

Now if your Chaotic evil then all bets are off, and really nothing is out of bounds or unreasonable.


ikarinokami wrote:
first of all, unless you became chaotic evil, you don't just commit evil acts without reason.

Its fully possible that a chaotic evil individual won't go out of his way to be a jerk. Chaotic and Evil don't mean stupid. You might subvert laws you already did, you might start stealing more than before, more than you should. Go from robin hood to making a dragon's hoard. It really varies between the character. I'm not a fan of going straight to crazy. You might be perfectly amicable from all outside views, then when no ones looking...


MrSin wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
first of all, unless you became chaotic evil, you don't just commit evil acts without reason.
Its fully possible that a chaotic evil individual won't go out of his way to be a jerk. Chaotic and Evil don't mean stupid. You might subvert laws you already did, you might start stealing more than before, more than you should. Go from robin hood to making a dragon's hoard. It really varies between the character. I'm not a fan of going straight to crazy. You might be perfectly amicable from all outside views, then when no ones looking...

Note I didnt say you had to commit evil for no reason if you are CE, but if you were going to do so, you would be CE. there is a major difference between what i said, and what you said i said.


Sorry, didn't mean to offend. Just getting a point out because you didn't touch chaotic evil in your post. Chaotic evil can be a weird place, and I know many players who think its purely for completely insane characters.

Liberty's Edge

In essence, CE has no moral or ethical boundaries...at the extreme. He can be patient...he can appear unassuming...he can be very practical. Int and Wis mean a lot, here.

Shadow Lodge

I had a character that was extremely chaotic, but pulled from a Deck of Many things and switched to LE. At the time, we had just handled the BBEG for the session/story arc and as such, there were a lot of play by post. It gave me the chance to slightly change the characters tone and reactions to how he dealt with people. He had an apprentice and went from unstructured classes with lots of freedom to a structured classroom setting with rigid rules and harsh punishment. He had a keep and started holding his servants to higher standards and trying to punish them when they didn't meet them. Before long, there was a side quest and one of his companions had him fixed behind his back. He would not have done so, because to such a character in that situation THEY shouldn't know they were switched, they just start acting their new normal.

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