Alright, so another one of my favorite spells is Blood Transcription. My DMs(and PFS) have always been prone to keeping spellbooks and scrolls out of my hands, but corpses are plentiful.
Now, the thing is, the target of blood transcription is one dead corpse. The description says I need 1 pint of blood and gives that corpse a 24 hour limit, then I have another 24 hour limit to actually write down the spell at my leisure.
So, how much of the corpse do I actually require for the spell? What defines corpse? Can it just be his arm? Can I just drain a few pints of blood and walk away after my barbarian friend smashes him into pudding? Understandably, its quiet a difference in work for the barbarian to carry the corpse or a few pints of blood. Much more elegant to get a vial of blood too.
My plan, and the reason for the title, is to hold onto however much I need, prepare and use the spell in the morning after mixing it with some fresh brewed tea and find some free time during the day to write down the spell. Possibly while sitting on the throne in my home.
The target is one dead spellcaster. I would rule that, no, you can't simply carry some blood to cast the spell on. Whether carrying a limb of said caster would be sufficient is up to the GM. However, again, I would rule that it is not as I would require at least a generally intact body to qualify for the target.
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I think RAI is that you can kill a sorcerer (you know, those pesky guys the GM uses because he doesn't want to overload WBL with the sale of spellbooks), then prepare BT the next day and learn a spell. It's pretty specifically spelled out: dead within 24 hours (= guaranteed enough time to regain spells[/i]), then 24 hours to write it.
Whether you need his corpse or if you can just tap off a pint of blood... formally you need the corpse because that's the spell target. On the other hand, the spell takes 1 standard action to cast; that's a bit short for extracting a pint of blood, enchanting it and drinking it. Maybe the spell causes the corpse to spew forth a pint of blood?
Interestingly, the spell has no material component; if you go by the "you need the corpse, not a jar of blood" interpretation, will the spell create additional pints of blood for you to drink? It doesn't say anything about being limited to the original creature's blood supply.
I personally prefer the jar of blood approach, with an assumption that a corpse will have at least one pint of blood remaining, more if the corpse wasn't wood-chipper-barbarian-ed too much.
I personally prefer the jar of blood approach, with an assumption that a corpse will have at least one pint of blood remaining, more if the corpse wasn't wood-chipper-barbarian-ed too much.
I myself am leaned more towards the blood if only to keep things sane. It doesn't specify what a corpse is and to be honest I feel that half the time there isn't much of a corpse leftover after a good crit from the local barbarian. Turned into pudding by an earthbreaker, or charred by the local sorc.
Regardless of what happens I will carry the corpse if I have to. Not too keen on the definition of corpse here, and the spells description seems to only require blood.
You're really going to ask the player to have his PC lug around a corpse in a bag of holding?
Personally I'd say it's fine to have just a jar of blood. The blood needs to be less than 24 hours old so. While RAI might intend to mean no sleeping in-between, that's something they didn't specify well enough to be beyond doubt(1 day would have even been better wording).
The spell is what the spell is. Targeting rules are targeting rules. This is the rules question forum. A jar of blood is not the target. Don't like it? Tough. This should be moved to the suggestion and/or advice forum.
The spell is what the spell is. Targeting rules are targeting rules. This is the rules question forum. A jar of blood is not the target. Don't like it? Tough. This should be moved to the suggestion and/or advice forum.
Except... I'm asking what the definition of corpse is. Please don't treat other posters like that either. Respect opinions, I'm fine with people saying they allow blood or lugging the corpse around, adds to the conversation.
Corpse.
1.
a dead body, usually of a human being.
If a hand, arm, or leg were sufficient then it would say a limb. (or arm or leg or hand, etc.)
I get what you are trying to do here but given how the spell reads I don't think its possible. You have to have the whole, or nearly whole, body in order to cast the spell.
(given there are no rules for losing limbs aside from the head this shouldnt present a problem. Every corpse is "whole" unless you Vorpal'd its head off or mutilate it after death).
When the rules don't define a term (such as corpse) just crack a dictionary and see what it says.
Its a body. Not a bit of a dead guy- but the body.
Sorry that doesn't help your cause. :\
-S
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Okay, strict rules then;
Assuming sufficient castings of BT available (let's say a fully charged wand)...
1) How many times can you cast BT on a given corpse? Does the blood run out eventually?
2) Does the condition of the corpse matter? (Barbarian with a chainsaw lurking in the background...)
3) How about the corpse of a skeletal champion wizard?
4) How about a naga? How many pints in a naga? A giant?
5) Is the Restore Corpse spell any use here, refilling blood? Will it work on the skeletal champion?
And also...
a) You consume 1 pint of blood... as a standard action? (Fratboys in the background chanting "chug! chug! chug!")
b) Is there a limit on how much blood you can consume before getting sick?
c) Is it okay to barf up the blood afterwards?
d) Is it wise to use Purify Food & Drink to avoid blood-borne diseases and poisons? Or would PF&D destroy the "contents"?
e) How do you know which spells you can select from?
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I like this spell, but I doubt it's ready for "strict RAW" yet, I think it's a bit too weird and not thoroughly written enough for that...
@Selgard Eh, I don't care either way to be perfectly honest. Just... slightly more morbid and less elegant to carry a corpse and I'm a little worried some DMs might say the corpse was destroyed or go out of their way to say no. Can't stop DM fiat anyway.
I like this spell, but I doubt it's ready for "strict RAW" yet, I think it's a bit too weird and not thoroughly written enough for that...
Huh... Well thats a lot of things I didn't consider. Its actually really nice spell for learning spells when you otherwise can't, such as killing an army of oracles and sorcerers as a witch or wizard and being in a campaign where you just can't find a spellbook or have to pay for a scroll, but in the same way infernal healing is fantastic for healing it looks like it comes with contingencies that complicate it.
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Well, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but then I'm not a RAW-fetishist. Old spells like Fireball have of course been developed to death; they've been through so many editions that all the wrinkles have been ironed out. New stuff like this that's really pushing the envelope, is bound to have some growing pains.
I realize that's not terribly helpful for PFS purposes. Sorry about that. For home games though, you'll probably just have to house rule some of it.
Eh, its the attachment to fluff I think. When fluff shows up in mechanics such as with the paladin or infernal healing your bound to run into issues when you want something a little different. In homegames its easy to deal with or compromise.
In PFS I'm just going to say I steal a few corpses for later to use if they don't let me just use a bit of blood. I've got a horse and various minions and means to get the corpse if I really have to. If I ever go back to play PFS anyway.
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If you make plans for this in PFS, you should be aware that this spell has the [evil] descriptor. That doesn't mean you can't ever cast it, but repeated casting will turn you evil and you can't be evil in PFS, so most GMs will have a limit on how often you can cast this (and some GMs may say "never").
If you make plans for this in PFS, you should be aware that this spell has the [evil] descriptor. That doesn't mean you can't ever cast it, but repeated casting will turn you evil and you can't be evil in PFS, so most GMs will have a limit on how often you can cast this (and some GMs may say "never").
Casting evil spells in PFS doesn't turn you evil. Similarly doing acts for your faction doesn't change alignment. A DM doesn't get that say. Now if I'm actively burning down orphanages he's free to make a note of it.
Except... I'm asking what the definition of corpse is. Please don't treat other posters like that either. Respect opinions, I'm fine with people saying they allow blood or lugging the corpse around, adds to the conversation.
There isn't an official Pathfinder definition of corpse just like there's not one for the dead condition. The system assumes common sense and GM interpretation. I do respect other peoples' opinions. However, this is the rules forum. The spell target is a dead spellcaster and not a jar of blood. According to the rules it can't work, period. If you want to allow it to, awesome, but then this becomes a house rule thread and should be moved to another forum. Dems da breaks.
Was just saying there was a nice way to say it. Will probably end up carrying a lot of corpses. Poor barbarian, but its his fault for having the strenght score!(well, him and the horse).
I'm stealing this idea.
I didn't read the thread because. Well, because. But instantly an idea popped into my head. Prestidigtation, use it to make the blood smell and taste like a brew you like. Use some 1sp alchemical liquid to make it less solid, from the many nosebleeds I've had, blood isn't watery, it's icky, gooey and quite thick.
Setup
Alchemists portable lab (vial and syringe)
Excuse ("I'd like to research their blood to see what poisons work.")
Accessories (Alchemical thinner. Prestidigation item/wand for taste and smell.)
This is just my personal opinion based on my interpretation of the text of the rules, and I am not attempting to make a definitive statement. Part of the confusion I think stems from the question of the exact connotation of "from" being used in the spell description. I would personally, just me, rule that you have to be consuming blood that was still inside the flesh of the target when you cast the spell.
1) How many times can you cast BT on a given corpse? Does the blood run out eventually?
Average human body has 10-12 pints of blood in it. Less a lot for damage, likely. Exact number in a dead spellcaster I would leave up to the GM, but I would probably say it would run out after less than 10 uses (for a Medium creature).
2) Does the condition of the corpse matter? (Barbarian with a chainsaw lurking in the background...)
Going with my personal interpretation, blood in the corpse is good enough.
3) How about the corpse of a skeletal champion wizard?
I would argue that there's no blood in it, that would be 0 points. <Zorg>ZERO PINTS...ZERO SPELLS!</Zorg>
4) How about a naga? How many pints in a naga? A giant?
Assuming a generally uniform ratio of blood:mass, and simplifying by creature size, I'd say just go by the standard cube law for scaling (8x the size difference, so 80-96 pints in a Large creature and 1.25-1.5 pints in a small. Anything smaller than Small is too small to have a pint of blood in it.)
5) Is the Restore Corpse spell any use here, refilling blood? Will it work on the skeletal champion?
I'd say no, only because the magic was "stored" in the bones, not the blood, before Restore Corpse was cast. Highly up to interpretation. As to Gentle Repose, since it functions to keep a body intact for the purposes of raise dead (among others), I would actually allow it personally, but I can absolutely see why a GM wouldn't.
a) You consume 1 pint of blood... as a standard action? (Fratboys in the background chanting "chug! chug! chug!")
You could take this one of two ways. Either you're chugging straight from the corpse as a desperate action, or you cast the spell on the corpse and then extract the blood to be consumed (one of my games actually uses a Survival check after the casting to extract blood to be consumed, just for flavor). Third option: you draw the blood out of the corpse through your skin because magic.
b) Is there a limit on how much blood you can consume before getting sick?
"A witch did it".
c) Is it okay to barf up the blood afterwards?
Sure, why not? You took the magic out of the blood, now it's just blood.
d) Is it wise to use Purify Food & Drink to avoid blood-borne diseases and poisons? Or would PF&D destroy the "contents"?
I would actually require it if you're drinking from a spellcaster with poison blood (Vishkanya, anyone?)
e) How do you know which spells you can select from?
I'd say it's equivalent to a read magic spell (being Divination school) in that it lets you understand what magics are stored in this caster's blood, but you only have enough blood per casting to extract one at a time.
You're dead right that it's not really "strict RAW", though.