Well they are finessable and the agile enchant does basically turn strength into a dump stat...
Didn't I just answer this?
Yes, that's how it works. I don't understand the big deal?
Yes, that's how it works. I don't understand the big deal?The deal is HUGE, sorry, but I have to be happy about this for a while to figure out how to milk it.
You can't really milk it. Strength is still better for dealing damage overall since it's easier to buff (say if you're an alchemist), and monks still suck anyway.
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We are gathered here today to mourn the loss of Vincent The Dark's "excitement", it was dealt a lethal blow with no provocation. It was a pointless crime, one can only hope that Vincent The Dark can still live on, and maybe once again find "excitement" for this game.
[for real though]Glad to see someone get excited on these forums over just bickering and whatnot, hope you have fun bro
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Alchemists can buff dex as well. The deal is big because you get what really matters in half the price. Some races give dex bonuses not str. and dex is more common than str. A Dervish Dancer costs a feat, 2 skill ranks and has plenty of penalties on what you can have in your off hand. Knowing that at level 4 you have +6 to your damage means a lot. Str is good with heavy armor, so that you can dump dex. (relatively) and does not cost a feat + restrictions plus 4000 gp (in the best scenario) so yeah, but dex gives you AC and to touch. Relevant. The big thing is your sheet looking good after the racial modifiers. I guess that is what I like the best. If more races gave str and something else, I wouldn't think this is as big a deal. But just think. Tengu's have 3 natural attacks at level 1. All they have to do is get to level 4 (18 PP) and that is 4000 gp best spent. Don't you think?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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You can't really milk it. Strength is still better for dealing damage overall since it's easier to buff (say if you're an alchemist), and monks still suck anyway.Yes, that's how it works. I don't understand the big deal?The deal is HUGE, sorry, but I have to be happy about this for a while to figure out how to milk it.
My Vivisectionist in Skull and Shackles has no problems buffing Dex, reliably does pretty good damage thanks to Agile, and has a wicked-high AC to boot since my damage stat doubles for defense.
EDIT: And my alchemist is a Tengu as well! :D
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We are gathered here today to mourn the loss of Vincent The Dark's "excitement", it was dealt a lethal blow with no provocation. It was a pointless crime, one can only hope that Vincent The Dark can still live on, and maybe once again find "excitement" for this game.
[for real though]Glad to see someone get excited on these forums over just bickering and whatnot, hope you have fun bro
All ears. Thanks man. : ) lol
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You can't really milk it. Strength is still better for dealing damage overall since it's easier to buff (say if you're an alchemist), and monks still suck anyway.Yes, that's how it works. I don't understand the big deal?The deal is HUGE, sorry, but I have to be happy about this for a while to figure out how to milk it.My Vivisectionist in Skull and Shackles has no problems buffing Dex, reliably does pretty good damage thanks to Agile, and has a wicked-high AC to boot since my damage stat doubles for defense.
EDIT: And my alchemist is a Tengu as well! :D
How did you get that title? Supa star!!!! lol Tell me : )
My Vivisectionist in Skull and Shackles has no problems buffing Dex, reliably does pretty good damage thanks to Agile, and has a wicked-high AC to boot since my damage stat doubles for defense.
It's not that you have a hard time buffing Dex, it's that you have an easier time buffing Strength. Size boosts, for example, buff strength (and base damage, but only by a paltry amount) and penalize Dex. Strength will also always be ahead in hit and damage, because they didn't need to spend a feat on Weapon Finesse or a +1 bonus on dealing Dex damage.
And monks don't suck. Not any more they don't. AC for days. (Making weaklings roll a 20 (twice) is just the kind of luck I like.)
Er, monks really do suck--this is a widely recognized fact. They suck slightly less than they used to, but yeah, they're still quite gimped. They're best suited for a dip to get quick feats, if anything.
Or well, Zen Archers are a really powerful exception. And I quite like Sensei as support. But normal monks? No, not a good idea.
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My friend, the work is not so much on you as much as my work is to gather evidence. In case I have an argument with the GMs where I play. And! All the questions that I have asked ARE arguable, or I wouldn't ask them.
I assume the questions from my side are quite answered as far as I am concerned and I feel content with everything I have gathered so far to go ahead and stick to a character. If you have contributed, as I believe that you have, please accept my gratitude. I am not asking questions to be jerk, but I do understand that I was MORE than surprised that I can have Agile on all my natural attacks and unarmed attacks for 4000 gp.
I don't see what is SO redundant, but do care to elaborate. If I ask a question, it was AFTER I have done my work, unless it is in the advice category, one or two questions there.
Again, thank you.
Dear brother, verily have you not foreseen that there are many manners in which a rule might be rendered arguable? And yet, comrade, can it be that the wisdom has not reached you that mere surprise is not such a manner? Come hither, my friend, and meditate upon the riddle of what it was that planted the seed of belief in your fertile mind that such a question might be worth posing. For mere surprise casts not a shadow of ambiguity nor of doubt, and indeed one may hardly feign a reason for such queries that could be less strong.
May your work be ever divine and just, and we anticipate your return anon to ponder whether Enlarge Person really stacks with Bull's Strength.
Or well, Zen Archers are a really powerful exception. And I quite like Sensei as support. But normal monks? No, not a good idea.
Not true; but what is true that monks are for people like me, who like to play the game on "hard". ;)
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Er, monks really do suck--this is a widely recognized fact.
And here I've been having fun with one. Sorry for playing wrong.
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Dear brother, verily have you not foreseen that there are many manners in which a rule might be rendered arguable? And yet, comrade, can it be that the wisdom has not reached you that mere surprise is not such a manner? Come hither, my friend, and meditate upon the riddle of what it was that planted the seed of belief in your fertile mind that such a question might be worth posing. For mere surprise casts not a shadow of ambiguity nor of doubt, and indeed one may hardly feign a reason for such queries that could be less strong.
May your work be ever divine and just, and we anticipate your return anon to ponder whether Enlarge Person really stacks with Bull's Strength.
I like your picture. For that, I excuse your interest in my demise. : ) lol
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In other news, another newbie smiles at a mundane fact. Ah the certainty of age.Mercy! That this magic item that can take weapon enhancements can in fact take weapon enhancements is a positively overwhelming revelation. I do declare that this may have given me a case of the vapors. I daresay such excitement is more than I ought be expected to handle for weeks!
BTW, I was talking about myself, if anyone missed it. But this attention does give me something to do. Sadly :( (lol) JK
Yes, that's how it works. I don't understand the big deal?The deal is HUGE, sorry, but I have to be happy about this for a while to figure out how to milk it.
Here's a monk I used for comparisons that could turn out a fair lump of damage (for a monk) using Weapon Finesse and agile.
Male Human (Vudrani) Monk 13
LG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +8; Senses Perception +21
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Defense
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AC 34, touch 30, flat-footed 25 (+4 armor, +8 Dex, +2 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 81 (13d8+13)
Fort +12, Ref +19, Will +16
Defensive Abilities Evasion, Improved Evasion; Immune Diamond Body, disease, poison; SR 23
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Offense
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Speed 70 ft.
Melee +1 Mithral Kama +18/+13 (1d6+2/x2) and
. . Masterwork Cold Iron Siangham +18/+13 (1d6+1/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +19/+14 (FoB +21/+21/+16/+16/+11) (2d6+9/19-20/x2)
Ranged +1 Crossbow, Light +18/+13 (1d8+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Masterwork Cold Iron Shuriken +18/+13 (1d2+1/x2)
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows +11/+11/+6/+6/+1, Ki Strike, Lawful, Ki Strike, Magic
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Statistics
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Str 10/12, Dex 20/26, Con 10/12, Int 14, Wis 16/20, Cha 8
Base Atk +9; CMB +21 (+23 Grappling, +23 Tripping); CMD 40 (42 vs. Grapple, 42 vs. Trip)
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Combat Reflexes (9 AoO/round), Crane Riposte, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dodge, Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike), Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Spring Attack, Stunning Fist (13/day) (DC 21), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Traits Vagabond Child (urban) (Disable Device), Wisdom in the Flesh (Climb)
Skills Acrobatics +24, Appraise +3, Climb +20, Disable Device +32, Escape Artist +13, Heal +6, Intimidate +3, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (religion) +8, Perception +21, Ride +12, Sense Motive +21, Sleight of Hand +13, Stealth +24, Swim +8
Languages Common, Draconic, Varisian, Vudrani
SQ Abundant Step, AC Bonus +8, Astrolabe, Earplugs, Fast Movement (+40'), High Jump (+13/+33 with Ki point), Ki Defense, Ki Pool, Maneuver Training, Map Maker's Kit, Purity of Body, Ram, portable, Slow Fall 60', Smoked Goggles, Stunning Fist (Stun, Fatigue, Sicken, Stagger), Unarmed Strike (2d6), Vow of Truth (+2 Ki), Wholeness of Body (13 HP/use)
Combat Gear +1 Crossbow, Light, +1 Mithral Kama, Masterwork Cold Iron Shuriken (50), Masterwork Cold Iron Siangham; Other Gear Acid Flask (3), Agile Amulet, Alchemist's Fire Flask (3), Alkali Flask (3), Astrolabe, Bedroll, Belt of Incredible Dexterity, +6, Bladeguard, Blanket, winter, Bracers of Armor, +4, Caltrops (2), Chalk, 1 piece, Climber's kit, Cloak of Resistance, +3, Crowbar, Earplugs, Everburning torch, Fishhook, Flint and steel, Goggles of Minute Seeing, Grappling hook, Hammer, Handy Haversack (67 @ 129.64 lbs), Headband of Inspired Wisdom, +4, Heatstone, Holy Water Flask (3), Ioun Stone, Dusty Rose Prism, Ioun Stone, Pale Blue Rhomboid, Ioun Stone, Pink Rhomboid, Liquid Ice (3), Map Maker's Kit, Mirror, small steel, Oil of Bless Weapon (2), Piton (10), Pole, 10-foot, Pot, iron, Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds (2), Potion of Fly, Potion of Invisibility, Potion of Remove Curse, Potion of Resist Acid 10, Potion of Resist Fire 10, Powder (2), Ram, portable, Rations, trail (per day) (3), Ring of Protection, +2, Rope, silk (50 ft.) (2), Sack (empty), Sack (empty), Sewing needle, Smoked Goggles, Spade or shovel, Spyglass, Sunrod (3), Tanglefoot bag (3), Thieves' tools, masterwork, Twine (50'), Whetstone
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Special Abilities
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Abundant Step (Su) For 2 Ki points, use dimension door.
AC Bonus +8 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Astrolabe +2 navigation
Combat Reflexes (9 AoO/round) You may make up to 9 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Crane Riposte When you deflect an attack, you may make an attack of opportunity
Crane Style Take -2 penalty when fighting defensively
Crane Wing May deflect one attack per round while fighting defensively or using total defense
Diamond Body (Su) At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.
Earplugs +2 save vs. hearing effects, -5 hearing-based Perception.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fast Movement (+40') The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Flurry of Blows +11/+11/+6/+6/+1 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full action.
High Jump (+13/+33 with Ki point) (Ex) +13 to Acrobatics checks made to jump.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Improved Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead. If you fail you take half damage.
Improved Grapple You grapple at +2, with no attacks of opportunity allowed.
Improved Trip You Trip at +2 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Defense (Su) A monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Ki Strike, Lawful (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as lawful to overcome DR.
Ki Strike, Magic (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as magic to overcome DR.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Map Maker's Kit +2 Circumstance for Survival to avoid becoming lost.
Purity of Body (Ex) At 5th level, a monk gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.
Ram, portable +2 to STR checks to break open a door, and allows a second helper (+2).
Slow Fall 60' (Ex) Treat a fall as shorter than normal if within arm's reach of a wall.
Smoked Goggles +8 save vs. visual effects, -4 sight-based Perception and you treat all opponents as having 20% concealment.
Spell Resistance (23) You have Spell Resistance.
Spring Attack You can move - attack - move when attacking with a melee weapon.
Stunning Fist (13/day) (DC 21) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun, Fatigue, Sicken, Stagger) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Unarmed Strike (2d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Vow of Truth (+2 Ki) The monk is not allowed to deliberately speak any lies, including bluffing, stating half-truths with the intent to deceive, exaggerating, telling white lies, and so on. This applies to all forms of communication. If presented with circumstances where
Wholeness of Body (13 HP/use) (Su) Self-heal monk level in damage for 2 Ki points.
Wisdom in the Flesh (Climb) Climb becomes a Wisdom-based, class skill.
The problem, though, is that his attack bonus is just that touch behind the curve that his damage output per round rather suffers for it. A well-built barbarian can match this build in just about everything. The other martial classes may fall behind the monk in a few defensive areas, but far exceed him in combat power and/or utility. That's the issue with the core monk.
Er, monks really do suck--this is a widely recognized fact.And here I've been having fun with one. Sorry for playing wrong.
You are not playing wrong, my friend, and if you are having fun, that is great. However, this does not change the fact that mechanically, monks are behind just about every other PC class save maybe the rogue. The rogue, however, can fulfil a role in a party very well, while the monk has real problems doing so.
Sure, if you can play to his strengths he can perform OK at low levels, but past 8th and he's always going to struggle outside of a few archetypes. Those archetypes are not really 'strong' so much as 'can function in a clear role' such as the zen archer.
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To that last one,
I was always thinking that a Champion of Irori is a really strong. Also, a Master of Many Styles (3 levels)with Kirin Strike at level 2 and High Intellect, A level of Mind Chemist, and ending with 10 levels of Duelist after 4 levels of Champion + or - something else, would really bring the AC to the max, especially touch. (As a second style Panther looks good, also Archon)
I personally don't believe that any non caster mono class isn't lacking. The Zen Archer is an obvious reason I said that the monk does not suck. And I would rather take a level of Monk than a level of Figher, the saves alone, make up for the BAB, then you have the 3 extra feats, one of which is two weapon fighting, so to speak.
And I really can't see how anybody can get so heated about something that can just be ignored.
Er, monks really do suck--this is a widely recognized fact.And here I've been having fun with one. Sorry for playing wrong.
As others said--there's nothing wrong with playing a monk. You can enjoy sucky things. It does not mean they aren't sucky, it just means you enjoy it anyway.
I prefer playing no-spellcasters. Playing spellcasters is obviously better, but I don't enjoy it as much. If I do play a spellcaster, I prefer to be a spontaneous caster. Again, it's not as strong (without Paragon Surge), but I do it anyway because it's more fun.
Monks are cool. They are not, however, mechanically powerful. They are barely mechanically viable.
To that last one,
I was always thinking that a Champion of Irori is a really strong. Also, a Master of Many Styles (3 levels)with Kirin Strike at level 2 and High Intellect, A level of Mind Chemist, and ending with 10 levels of Duelist after 4 levels of Champion + or - something else, would really bring the AC to the max, especially touch. (As a second style Panther looks good, also Archon)
I personally don't believe that any non caster mono class isn't lacking. The Zen Archer is an obvious reason I said that the monk does not suck. And I would rather take a level of Monk than a level of Figher, the saves alone, make up for the BAB, then you have the 3 extra feats, one of which is two weapon fighting, so to speak.
And I really can't see how anybody can get so heated about something that can just be ignored.
This is a very common misconception newer players have:
Oh man, if I can add three stats to AC, my AC will be awesome!
I'm sorry, it's not true. Armor is the way to go for AC (unfortunately--this is another case where I prefer not wearing armor even though I recognize that it's better).
A heavy armor class can be reasonably expected to be wearing Full Plate by level 3. That's +10 AC (9 from armor, 1 from Dex). Do you really think your monk's Dex and Wis mods could total 10 by level 3? Even with a third stat in there--I just find it impossible without astronomical point buys or ridiculous rolling rules (6d6, take the highest 3, reroll 1s or something silly like that)
By the time you get to stat buff items, you can get Mithril armor, which adds another 2 AC to the mix--it'll be very hard to keep up with that, especially if you're buying an agile amulet of natural attacks.
Then you get to magical enhancements and the Monk has to turn to Bracers of Armor--they cost the same as armor enhancements, but take up a valuable bracer slot.
It's just never a good thing. Wisdom to AC in no armor (and the Int to AC in light/no armor) is not a bonus, it's a consolation prize.
There are a few mnonk types that are good the grappling monk can flowing monk can both be powerful.
In the end magic wins though.
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To that last one,
I was always thinking that a Champion of Irori is a really strong. Also, a Master of Many Styles (3 levels)with Kirin Strike at level 2 and High Intellect, A level of Mind Chemist, and ending with 10 levels of Duelist after 4 levels of Champion + or - something else, would really bring the AC to the max, especially touch. (As a second style Panther looks good, also Archon)
I personally don't believe that any non caster mono class isn't lacking. The Zen Archer is an obvious reason I said that the monk does not suck. And I would rather take a level of Monk than a level of Figher, the saves alone, make up for the BAB, then you have the 3 extra feats, one of which is two weapon fighting, so to speak.
And I really can't see how anybody can get so heated about something that can just be ignored.This is a very common misconception newer players have:
Oh man, if I can add three stats to AC, my AC will be awesome!
I'm sorry, it's not true. Armor is the way to go for AC (unfortunately--this is another case where I prefer not wearing armor even though I recognize that it's better).
A heavy armor class can be reasonably expected to be wearing Full Plate by level 3. That's +10 AC (9 from armor, 1 from Dex). Do you really think your monk's Dex and Wis mods could total 10 by level 3? Even with a third stat in there--I just find it impossible without astronomical point buys or ridiculous rolling rules (6d6, take the highest 3, reroll 1s or something silly like that)
By the time you get to stat buff items, you can get Mithril armor, which adds another 2 AC to the mix--it'll be very hard to keep up with that, especially if you're buying an agile amulet of natural attacks.
Then you get to magical enhancements and the Monk has to turn to Bracers of Armor--they cost the same as armor enhancements, but take up a valuable bracer slot.
It's just never a good thing. Wisdom to AC in no armor (and the Int to AC in light/no armor) is not a bonus, it's a...
Indulge me. Allow me to see your build and tell you your misconceptions.
I can have 22 Armor from the get go as a monk. (Dex 18 Wisdom 18 Mage Armor, done) Any class with the feats can have full plate, nothing special,or if you don't mind multi-classing.I really think that you don't know what you are talking about. I see only that you, like many others, believe that the game should be played straight forward. Str, melee, full plate. If every character did that, what a bummy game.
You have 18 armor. You have a temporary buff your buying with mage armor. This eats upa resource, either a spell if your a caster or wand charges if your UMDing, in both cases you may not have the CL too keep it up forever.
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You have 18 armor. You have a temporary buff your buying with mage armor. This eats upa resource, either a spell if your a caster or wand charges if your UMDing, in both cases you may not have the CL too keep it up forever.
It last one hour from a wand. 750 is less than 1500 for full armor. I feel like these are such childish remarks. Are you gonna brake it down to flat and touch too?
18 to 22, happy?
Indulge me. Allow me to see your build and tell you your misconceptions.
I can have 22 Armor from the get go as a monk. (Dex 18 Wisdom 18 Mage Armor, done) Any class with the feats can have full plate, nothing special,or if you don't mind multi-classing.
How are you deciding your stats?
If you have 20 point buy (PFS standard), you're using some kind of a Dex/Wis race (some kind of alternate Aasimar?), and you have 10 in every other stat. So, 8 HP and terrible damage until you can afford 4k.
If it's rolling, you can't possibly guarantee you'll have two stats that high.
Further, where are you getting Mage Armor? Are you assuming a wizard is going to use one of their 3 first level spells on buffing your AC for an hour? Or are you expecting to afford 15gp per hour for a wand of Mage armor and you being able to consistently roll 20s on UMD checks?
If I had absurd amounts of money and guaranteed buffs, a heavy armor class could have 22 AC with shield of faith + Plate.
Let's talk about realistic character choices if you're going to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
I really think that you don't know what you are talking about. I see only that you, like many others, believe that the game should be played straight forward. Str, melee, full plate. If every character did that, what a bummy game.
I am pretty sure many times in my post, I lamented the fact that armor was better than no armor. I don't want to wear armor, honestly, but the rules kind of force me to if I want to be optimal.
I do not believe the game should be played straightforward. I believe, however, it was written in a way to enforce that it is played straightforward, and I have frequently houseruled in the past to change that.
I do not want it to be so, but monks are not a good class. They are worst in the game, down there with Rogue. This is not me trolling, this is me earnestly warning you of the sad facts.
Actually yes, I'm much more happy. Thank you! I just have a hard time considering those full time bonuses.
Also, 18/18 with racials in both, which is unlikely, is 20 points, 34 without. Unless your a Zen Archer I don't see this happening very often or happening without coming at the cost of your other attributes. A champion of Irori with levels in alchemist is going to need a good Int/Cha/Wis/Str/Dex and Con. Part of the point was that it does usually come at a cost.
Edit: Someone totally beat me to it and said a whole lot more.
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Thanks for "taking a step back". I never said that a build that relies on Agile enchant, even at 4k is one that can happen before 18PP, which is level 4.
Realistically, we have to look at what we are trying to achieve with the character we play. I don't really have much to go by here, other than monks are not as good, deal with it. I would like some supporting arguments like, this is better or this is better, that IS a real playable alternative. At that, I would defend the monk, or have a better Idea of what you mean.
Monks are good for multi-classing, which is what I like to do. 1st and second level are great. 3rd is good with the Monk's Robes for 2 more AC. If you plan to wear armor, all these bonus go away. As well as, if you plan to wear armor, you need to avoid the spell chance failure of arcane casters.
I have nothing against armor. So, if you want to elaborate on how the monk is inferior, please bring something up rather than repeat the same thing, that everybody knows.
Also, the "crazy AC" is meaningless by the time it all comes together.
At higher levels, AC is, more or less, meaningless.
Im not sure I agree. Its certainly hard to have a "meaningful" armor class, but it is doable. If you set yourself up with a touch armor in the high thirties(which I believe is what a monk would manage), I could see casters having a serious problem with you. Combined with evasion, this would be very hard to deal with for a non melee centric class.
Monsters Attack scales faster than AC. There is a static growth of attack per hit dice, however strength and size grow at a very fast rate. When a creature has 16 strength and 3/4 BAB at level 4(an example of a normal animal) its not hard to hit respectable AC against it. However if the creature is huge or Gigantic with a strength in the upper 20s and full bab(an example of an outsider or magical beast), hitting a respectable AC is much much harder.
Thanks for "taking a step back". I never said that a build that relies on Agile enchant, even at 4k is one that can happen before 18PP, which is level 4.
Realistically, we have to look at what we are trying to achieve with the character we play. I don't really have much to go by here, other than monks are not as good, deal with it. I would like some supporting arguments like, this is better or this is better, that IS a real playable alternative. At that, I would defend the monk, or have a better Idea of what you mean.
Monks are good for multi-classing, which is what I like to do. 1st and second level are great. 3rd is good with the Monk's Robes for 2 more AC. If you plan to wear armor, all these bonus go away. As well as, if you plan to wear armor, you need to avoid the spell chance failure of arcane casters.
I have nothing against armor. So, if you want to elaborate on how the monk is inferior, please bring something up rather than repeat the same thing, that everybody knows.
I believe that the consensus regarding monks is that they struggle to maintain to hit chance that is relevant with other martial classes. The math shows that monks tend to be about three points behind.
The other major complaint from forum goers is that the class itself struggles with class feature synergy. The movement does not synergize with flurry of blows.
For the record, I think monks are pretty good for level dips. They have quite a few goodies in the first two levels that will bolster other full base martials weaknesses.
Then you end up with a "High AC" PC who does not do much else.
Respectfully, I still don't agree with this. It's very difficult to have a high armor class and remain a relevant threat, but that does not mean it's totally impossible. The only thing that becomes evident is that you end up with few class choices that have the mechanical synergy to accomplish the feat.
Then you end up with a "High AC" PC who does not do much else.
I believe he needs an example or in the least a logic.
You can have ACs into the upwards forties for instance, but this takes resources. Resources that are not being put into hitting things or doing damage, or finding ways to survive or solve problems. Does this AC save you from a save or die? Does it help you hit the BBEG or is he laughing wickedly as you poke him.
Why have AC in the first place is a wierd question. I don't think it was intended to lose value over time as it does, and when its PC vs. PC its not nearly as bad as a gigantic monster with a gigantic strength modifier. Dragons would be much less terrifying if they couldn't touch you though imo.
The interesting thing is that a few of the classes capable of super high armor without massive investment also have good saves. If your armor class is largely touch, then saves sometimes don't come into play.
One consideration when doing this kind of thing is achieving a to hit chance that stays within the likely hit threshold of enemies your likely to face.
The other major consideration for these kinds of builds is that you may suffer from a little bit of combat boredom. You may be capable of doing respectable damage and be very hard to harm or kill, but you used a lot of character level options to do it, so your not going to be full of interesting combat options.