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The Bard spell Saving Finale allows you to end your performance to immediately allow an ally to reroll a failed save. How does the bard know the save is failed? I had this come up when a ranger ally got exposed to disease. He failed his save but in character I would have no idea whether he made it or not so the spell went uncast.
Seems a rather worthless spell most of the time unless the effect of the failed save is obvious.
How does the bard know the save is failed?
By metagaming.
You can fluff it however you want, maybe you noticed his morale drop when he felt the hostile force overpower him.
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How does the bard know the save is failed?By metagaming.
You can fluff it however you want, maybe you noticed his morale drop when he felt the hostile force overpower him.
I pondered for a few minutes, but Grick is dead-on right, about the only way to do it is meta-gaming, unless you want to look at the spell for what it does and allow you to change the past a few seconds ago ... and any spell that powerful will allow you to tell when a compatriot within range fails a save.
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But if you use Saving Finale and it works, he never actually failed his save... why did the bard behave so erratically!? (insert twilight zone intro)
The bard has spells that require pure metagaming to use effectively. See Timely Inspiration, for example.
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But if you use Saving Finale and it works, he never actually failed his save... why did the bard behave so erratically!? (insert twilight zone intro)
The bard has spells that require pure metagaming to use effectively.
Bards can see beyond the fourth wall. They know it's all a game, how else could they keep smiling?
All of life is a performance.
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This reminds me of a game I was GMing decades ago.
There was this evil bad guy with armor that had a chance to sunder a weapon when you hit it. Really nasty armor. I probably wouldn't do the same thing now, but hey, back then it was a wild and woolly gaming world.
So my brother's dwarven fighter engages the bad guy. He had this awesome dwarven axe, sort of like the "axe of the dwarven lords" but a custom axe, like most of my high level magic items are custom. Anyway it was the dwarf's prized possession.
So he smacks the bad guy:
Me: "Make a fortitude save" I say.
Bro: "Why?"
Me: "Just make a fortitude save."
*Rolls his save, succeeds*
Bro: "OK, I hit him again".
Other player: "What! Don't do that!"
Me: "OK, you hit, roll your damage and make another fort save."
Other player: "Dude! Somethings wrong man!"
Bro: "Do I feel any ill effects from hitting the guy?"
Me: "Um... no, but you are having to save every time you hit him."
Bro: "How does my character know that?"
Me: "Uh... (frantically searches rule book)... Uh... "
Bro: (who was the rules expert) "He doesn't. I hit him again."
Me: "Make another save"
Other player: "Dude! You're gonna get killed or lose your axe or something! Stop!"
Eventually the axe was sundered.
I felt terrible. I had assumed that after one hit my brother would use one of his lesser weapons.
I still think that was one of the most awesome in character displays I've ever witnessed.
This question might apply to the Ki Mystic monk's Mystic Insight as well.
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This reminds me of a game I was GMing decades ago.
There was this evil bad guy with armor that had a chance to sunder a weapon when you hit it. Really nasty armor. I probably wouldn't do the same thing now, but hey, back then it was a wild and woolly gaming world.
So my brother's dwarven fighter engages the bad guy. He had this awesome dwarven axe, sort of like the "axe of the dwarven lords" but a custom axe, like most of my high level magic items are custom. Anyway it was the dwarf's prized possession.
So he smacks the bad guy:
Me: "Make a fortitude save" I say.
Bro: "Why?"
Me: "Just make a fortitude save."
*Rolls his save, succeeds*
Bro: "OK, I hit him again".
Other player: "What! Don't do that!"
Me: "OK, you hit, roll your damage and make another fort save."
Other player: "Dude! Somethings wrong man!"
Bro: "Do I feel any ill effects from hitting the guy?"
Me: "Um... no, but you are having to save every time you hit him."
Bro: "How does my character know that?"
Me: "Uh... (frantically searches rule book)... Uh... "
Bro: (who was the rules expert) "He doesn't. I hit him again."
Me: "Make another save"
Other player: "Dude! You're gonna get killed or lose your axe or something! Stop!"Eventually the axe was sundered.
I felt terrible. I had assumed that after one hit my brother would use one of his lesser weapons.
I still think that was one of the most awesome in character displays I've ever witnessed.
For something like this, I'd think a description of what was happening that he had to save against might be in order. ie "Your axe vibrates harshly from the clanging against the enemy's armor. You begin to suspect that the armor has some sort of magic that is affecting your weapon."
Similarly, when I'm GMing a spellcaster attacking the party, I'll give them a verbal description of what happened when they make a save against a spell. For instance:
GM: "The enemy wizard casts some sort of spell while looking right at you. Give me a will save."
Player makes saving throw successfully.
GM: "You feel a little tired for a second, but you shake it off."
Player: "Must have been a sleep spell"
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It doesn't have to be meta-gamey. The mystical aspect of bardic music has never really been explained. It's a clunky mechanic that has room for all sorts of bizarre "music of spheres, maaaan" explanations. Just say your bardic performance has a flicker of feedback - that you can almost taste the blood in your mouth when you sing a comrade into a deadly skirmish, or the wind in your trumpet sours with a dark harmony when an ally fails a disease check. It's almost inaudible, but you have just enough time to push back against it, to dash it away with a clarion crash.
You know, I could have sworn there was something that stated that characters were aware of having made a saving throw, though they might not recognize why.
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: "A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack."
The problem in this case is it's assuming that, without the bard, the character would fail, not succeed, and beyond that, that the bard would have to know the character was going to fail before using the ability.
Design Manager
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You know, I could have sworn there was something that stated that characters were aware of having made a saving throw, though they might not recognize why.Succeeding on a Saving Throw: "A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack."
The problem in this case is it's assuming that, without the bard, the character would fail, not succeed, and beyond that, that the bard would have to know the character was going to fail before using the ability.
Ah, thanks for the link Grick!
I think I got a little side-tracked by AD's dwarf story, I guess that really doesn't impact the OP's bard question in any way. And it would be a little silly to assume that characters in the process of failing saving throws would be able to flag their bard down...
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You know, I could have sworn there was something that stated that characters were aware of having made a saving throw, though they might not recognize why. Apparently that is not the case.
Learn something new every day...
Grick's got it.
While this only specifically applies to spells, it seems more than reasonable to me to extend it to other non-obvious effects that require saving throws. The intent is clearly to provide awareness of danger - to prevent someone (like your brother with his admirable commitment to RP) from repeatedly performing a dangerous act because they are unaware of the fact that they are making saving throws.
That said, there is absolutely nothing that suggests that other people will be aware of you either making or failing a saving throw, so Saving Finale still requires metagaming in most circumstances. I don't worry about it since that's clearly the intent of the spell, but if it makes you uncomfortable you should probably learn another spell.