| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
We are currently working on a new base class, the Fleshwraith , for our NeoExodus Campaign setting. This is an organic version of our Machinesmith base class, and we at LPJ Design though it would be best to just release the draft of the class and get some feedback from the Paizo fan base. We want to hear from you on what we have done correct and what have we done VERY wrong, so please feel free to comment, in great detail if needed, in these thread. Enjoy!
So is this an Alternate Machinesmith base class? From the doc it seems so:
"She receives prototypes, greatworks and machinesmith tricks like a machinesmith..."
I don't have time right now for in-depth analysis, but as far as flavor goes, it definitely is a cool concept. One thing - it is very difficult visually to get a handle on all the abilities and which are part of a suite and which are their own ability (genetic lab upgrades, greatworks, hiveminds). Adding a progression table would help with that, even at this stage.
*The layout is a bit confused: Genetic Lab upgrades come after Biologist, not following after Genetic Lab, and Hiveminds follow info on Vermin Companion, which seems to be part of hivemind?!!?. By this stage I'm completely confused as to what is a suite/choice of abilities and what is a level gained/progression/set ability.
*Biologist: Nice tweak on poison use from Craft (Alchemy) to Knowledge (nature). Perhaps a poisoner based archetype as well?
*Flesh Repair: so an organic, non-positive channel healing? Great.
*The Intelligent design ability is very cool, I'm just thinking it is kinda a double ability with the Heal skill bonus. Perhaps that could be bundled in elsewhere or by itself somewhere. It does fit thematically, but...
*Host is a great archetype, and I really like the Exoskeleton Growth spell. The new feat: Body Horror is fantastic. Straight from cinema, and very cinematic.
Typos/Errata
*Grant Evolution spell has some text that should be in Bioconversion. (Last sentence)
That's all for now.... Great work Maxximilius if this is your...baby...
P.S. I vote Fleshwraith for the name, though Biomechanist is also very cool. Maybe I'm just leery of Biomechanist bcoz I'm working on my own Alternate Class that has Bio- as a prefix.... :) Fleshwraith gives me just the right heebie jeebies a fleshwrought fleshwarpin' gesigner should...
|
Thanks for the feedback Oceanhieldwolf, I'm glad you liked it, especially knowing your experience in game design !
The layout of greatwork upgrades was taken from d20pfsrd's entry for machinesmith greatworks. Following your advice, I changed it to the more traditional per-level-entry.
All your suggestions have been taken into account and the document should be clearer now. I also added an available augmentation to the hivemind greatwork; at first, both had 2 new specific augmentations, but I found one more for the genetic lab before posting it and the aftertaste of the hivemind receiving one less entry was annoying.
Note that with some rework, the Plaguebringer archetype we made for the alchemist in Rite Publishing's Pathways 14 could very well be a perfect fleshwraith poisoner archetype with his own exclusive, creepier microbe lab greatwork. :)
|
|
Thanks jreyst ! I've got no issue with d20pfsrd formatting, on the contrary, the machinesmith's greatworks each have the advantage to have their own page, and that's what I tried to reproduce by putting each upgrade tree under the greatwork themselves (instead of separating the upgrades from the greatworks and writting them at the level you receive them like all other rules, which has now been done).
I can see how something that can be obvious and better for me after working on the machinesmith during hours over two supplements can nevertheless miss clarity for new readers. :)
The little story at the beginning is just great.
I may just have to give the base class and this archetype another look, as the idea of bioengineering fits a character of mine perfectly.
EDIT: I will admit I liked the Host as an Alchemist Archetype better. That version is still available in your other pdfs, right, Max?
made a grammar comment on the doc
|
On a random sidenote, boy do I support the idea of sharing a class or race like this while it is in the design phase... especially via Google Docs where you can add comments to it drawing attention to typos etc. This way the end result is likely to be far better designed and less likely to need errata after the fact.
Ok, that's all I've got. Just wanted to mention that :D
|
|
Thanks for the comments everyone, I applied the required corrections. :)
I also corrected some editing mistakes on the abilities that the Host replaces (including the fact it is intended for you to retain your fleshcrafting ability, unlike previously written, so you have a limited daily ability to change your evolutions and quickly adapt to a situation in a true Darwinesque fashion).
Azten => Yep, still available, though I changed the way it receives evolutions and some things due to unneeded complexity. You'll find more details on the dedicated thread; you'll also note the Fleshwraith Host is more refined, and better balanced than the original. This one got months of several supplements worth of additional experience in design, and playtest going for it !
Love the class! There are a few spelling and wording errors, however, and the Heal skill should be added as a class skill. After all, how does one practice biomancy without some knowledge of anatomy and surgery? Just a thought. Also, would be extremely excited to see an archetype dealing with almost exclusively with insect-style ideas. The hivemind greatwork was awesome!
|
|
Good find, I replaced Disable Device and Knowledge (engineering) for more appropriate skills: Intimidate and Heal.
I honestly don't see what could constitute a consequent, full fleshed insect-based archetype considering you can already select vermin shape prototypes and the hivemind greatwork.
If replacing few class abilities is not an issue for you, for example, you may simply trade Anatomist with a vermin familiar and put a limitation on Flesh repair so it only works on vermins. Add an augmentation to eat vermins to recover hit points on yourself (see the Gut Flora augmentation for genetic labs; replace the prototype-eating with an actual vermin under your control, like 1 HP per HD, or a "cure" spell appropriate to the level of the spell used to summon the vermin/swarm).
You would have vermin-based spell-like abilities, a familiar, an animal companion, disgusting evolutions, prototypes, and another disgusting, sadly too flavorful augmentation (tastes like gooey chicken). And voilà, small and simple archetype !
Also, can there be some plant based ideas as well? Because the whole science angle is interesting and ideas like hallucinogenic/mind-controlling pollen go great together. Also, an archetype or greatwork dealing with disease would be cool too. Can you see a fleshwraith with an army of plague zombies? Or the ability to infect other people and essentially make them into clones, which the character can then transfer spiritually into, similar to doppelganger simulacrum, but better. I realize the zombie-doctor trope has been explored countless times, but it's a classic. And on another note, what about a unique augmentation that allows one to utilize brain parasites against foes that only fleshwraiths with the symbiote archetype can take? The ability to produce powerful bioelectric currents? Bioluminousity? In any case, I will definitely buy this PDF when it comes out! Any anticipated release date? And is there any race in particular that could gain favored class options from the class, such as a Khaynite, for example?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Oh man, I had an awesome idea. A greatwork or archetype that lets you turn into a brain in a robotic jar! Probably not feasible, but was inspired by the avatar picture!
In case no one's spotted it yet, the Gut Flora description contains the word "gesigner" when I believe you meant to type "designer".
Also, I really like the Host option. Seems like it was very heavily based on the manga "Parasyte", especially in the overall description. Am I right?
|
|
Sky's the limit, my friends ! (Well, at least, deep, deep space is.)
At first, the genetic lab included a wider emphasis on vegetal and animal. I even got a Photosynthesis/roots augmentation, but it felt out of place since it was the only real pure plant-thematic option. Note that the Spore Infection genetic lab augmentation could actually be used to produce this mind-breaking/hallucinogenic drug on adjacent targets (opium-breathing BBEG for awesome creepiness?). So most options were included as prototypes or references to the original ideas for those who want this flavor. The most difficult part wasn't the balance, but providing mechanics unique, iconic powers and great flavor that no other class can already do in some way.
I sure already have a plaguebringer/zombie variant in my mind that could be used as a basis for a full archetype; and ideas for a plant-based one complete with its own greatwork. But considering I'm pretty much exactly on the maximum wordcount already, I don't think it would be really profitable for LPJ Design to add more, at least for now...
Oh man, I had an awesome idea. A greatwork or archetype that lets you turn into a brain in a robotic jar! Probably not feasible, but was inspired by the avatar picture!
You mean, the "Cybernetics Doctor" archetype I dropped since I felt it was more fitting to a machinesmith and would take 1/3 the document's size ? Because it would have included a brain-in-a-jar. ;)
Now to grant it the Design Anything (Su) class ability...Rynjin => "'G'esigner" as per the "'g'esigner cells" granted by the genetic lab greatwork. The inspiration for the Host indeed comes from Parasyte, plus The Thing, Venom, Alien, Berserk, Resident Evil, Gunnm, Dead Space and Stargate, just to name a few ! The inspiration was made clearer in its grandfather I wrote in 2011 for my Archetypes document. ;)
|
|
I forgot - about favored class options and Khaynites, I'd have to see what has been written about them first. I only read Endzeitgeist's review of Enemies of NeoExodus: First Ones because you mentioned them, and from what he said, the race is indeed begging for some fleshwraith love !
By sheer concept alone, I'd go for +1/3 evolution point to the character's evolution pool as a favored class option for Khaynites; +1/2 to the character's serpentine mechanus's grapple checks for Koburas; +1/2 to bite damage, and to CMB/CMD for the purposes of a bite's grab for Krocas; +1 to Climb checks and +1/4 to the DC of poison inflicted by bites for Aneishis; and +1/3 to Will saves for Exodi.
But that's just a suggestion on the fly that may lack balance.
Can't think of a better designer for such a weird class!
But a few problems.
1) The bioengineered mechanus is vastly better than the normal mechanus, which itself is fairly weak. Since they're intelligent, they'll be receiving feats, which by itself makes them a lot better than the normal mechanus. You also need to clarify that the bioengineered mechanus is not mindless, since, well, they aren't.
2) The bio mechanus also gets the bonus HP from size, Toughness, and a +1 Con modifier.
3) You should probably tell where to get the puppets. But to mention the product name, you'd need permission from Steve.
|
|
Thanks for the review and the kind words, Cheapy ! :)
About 1) and 2), bioengineered constructs do not receive bonus hit points from their size; that's one of the major differences about real constructs in their description. I guess I should make it clearer that their traits replace construct traits. On the other hand, they may bleed, suffer nerf spells and substances (fatigue, poison...), be healed with magic, be granted evolutions through the Grant Evolution prototype, etc.
At 1st level, all bioengineered mechani would have 1d10 hit points + 1 (Con) + 3 (Toughness), so an average of 9.5 HP (from 5 to 14); while a machinesmith's clockwork mechanus would have 1d10 hit points + 10 (medium construct), so 15.5 on average (from 11 to 20) increasing by another 10 at 5th level when becoming large (let's say 5d10 + 10(Con) + 3(Tough)= 40.5 against 5d10 + 20 = 47,5).
Granting them feats and limited skills was meant to counterbalance their inherent weaknesses and grant a bonus at odd levels (remember they aren't proficient in anything and have severely limited abilities to meet feat prerequisites), but I guess the best way would be to grant them the ability to select a feat instead of selecting a trick to share at 2nd level then every 5 levels later.
About 3), I'll ask Steve !
Yea, them otherwise losing construct traits wasn't really clear. How are saving throws affected? Do they still get the crappy ones?
You're also giving the best parts of the regular mechanus' level 20 ability at 1st level...But again, that's probably more due to the weakness of the regular mechanus than this.
|
|
Remarks taken into account and applied:
- I added a full description of the bioengineered construct template. The initial writing assumed that the traits specified would replace the relevant entries of a construct, but you can never be too clear.
- The mechanus now receives a feat at 2nd level and every 5 levels later, maximum. The level 20 upgrade still grants the mechanus a size increase and the equivalent of 10 feats, so is still very much worth it. :)
|
|
I've got a cool goodie for you gals and guys ! However, since it isn't directly related to the fleshwraith (though totally compatible with her, of course), I don't think it's really the best time or thread for it.
All I can say is that it involves machinesmiths, brains and jars.