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The alchemist infusion discovery say:
Infusion: When the alchemist creates an extract, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The extract created now persists even after the alchemist sets it down. As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist's daily extract slots. An infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects.
I have read that as "it last more than 24 hours" not only as "it last when outside the magic field of the alchemist".
Recently another player has cast some doubt on that interpretation.There is a official ruling somewhere?
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The extract will become inert after 1 day.
"An extract, once created, remains potent for 1 day before becoming inert, so an alchemist must re-prepare his extracts every day."
Infusion does not change when the extract becomes inert. However, as long as the extract exists, even if inert, will keep on taking an extract slot, so the alchemist needs to be careful about leaving them about or who they're given to.
I dunno...
Infusion: When the alchemist creates an extract, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The extract created now persists even after the alchemist sets it down. As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist's daily extract slots. An infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects.
That little bit leads me to believe that it can last past the day its created. It would be pointless to add that sentence, if the infusion only lasted the same day it was created, as you can only use the slot the one time that first day.
It would be pointless to add that sentence, if the infusion only lasted the same day it was created, as you can only use the slot the one time that first day.
The argument is that after one day, the extract still exists (thus taking up a slot) but is no longer potent. So anyone who drinks it after a day will not gain any effects from it, though it would free up that extract slot.
-edit- I think the intent is that it stays potent until used.
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It would be pointless to add that sentence, if the infusion only lasted the same day it was created, as you can only use the slot the one time that first day.The argument is that after one day, the extract still exists (thus taking up a slot) but is no longer potent. So anyone who drinks it after a day will not gain any effects from it, though it would free up that extract slot.
It all depend on how you define extract then. As a alchemist can't reactivate an extract made the previous day but must mix a new one I think it isn't an extract anymore.
As the infusion say: "As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist's daily extract slots." it either prolong the duration of the extract or the infusion become inert a non an extract the following day.
As the infusion say: "As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist's daily extract slots." it either prolong the duration of the extract or the infusion become inert a non an extract the following day.
Those are not the only two options. It's entirely possible for the extract to exist but no longer be potent. A non-infused extract is still an extract after a day, it's just no longer potent, and it's existence doesn't prevent the alchemist from preparing a new one after resting.
I do agree that it should be one of the two options you listed, probably the first one.
-edit- I haven't cited anything in this thread!
Alchemy (Su): "An extract immediately becomes inert if it leaves the alchemist's possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—an alchemist cannot normally pass out his extracts for allies to use (but see the “infusion” discovery below). An extract, once created, remains potent for 1 day before losing its magic, so an alchemist must re-prepare his extracts every day."
Since setting down a non-infused extract causes it to become inert, but picking it back up fixes it, we can assume that what makes an extract "an extract" is not the magic that is within it. A non-infused extract that is set down is still an extract, despite it doing nothing if somebody drinks it. So it's reasonable that an infused extract that is over a day old is still an extract, despite it doing nothing if somebody drinks it.
I believe the intent is that it will last until used. Thus, you can keep an infusion for an unlimited amount of time, but if it's not used, you can't reclaim that extract slot. This means the alchemist should really keep track of who he gives his infusions to, and I wish there was a way to make the infusion inert remotely.
My view is partially influenced by this post by James Jacobs, who was the original designer of the alchemist class prior to Jason and the Devs (Jason! Jason! Jasonnnnn and the Devvvsss pfhewww ba ba ba ba!) taking over. Although looking at the time stamp on that, I guess this has always been my view.
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| 14 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. |
I was the one asking JJ that. I greatly respect him but I think this question need a FAQ.
I was hoping there was a official ruling somewhere that I had missed, but it don't seem so.
A FAQ version of this thread:
1) What is the duration of an alchemist infusion? 1 day or forever until consumed/destroyed?
2) If it last only a day, it will still use up a extract slot the next day after its power has waned?
I can see it being the case where it still becomes inert after 24 hours, but the line Sniggevert mentions is what makes me think that's not the case. So, FAQ'd.
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Will go ahead and FAQ it too, because I want you to be right, but RAW, merely existing doesn't prevent it from becoming inert. If inert, it doesn't work anymore, but keeps existing. That doesn't seem to be interpretable in other ways.
As mentioned, having them become inert after a day but keep taking a slot would make the alchemist cautious about handing out special potions, which seems appropriate. They are potions containing a small piece of his magical essence.
RAI seems to be #2. This ability is intended to allow others to use the extracts. Not extend the use of extracts. After all, the alchemist could simply keep the potions, and should this ability make them last longer?
Until I read what JJ said I found it hard to believe that RAI was that the infusion could really take up a formulae slot permanently if someone took off with it..YEASH! So if that happened would there be some way to track your magical essence that was infused into the extract, to find it and get it back?
I hit FAQ.
Great addition to this Mike! That definitely swings it back towards only lasting 24 hours.
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While on-demand extracts are more useful than regular spells for sale, it's not like Wizards or Clerics couldn't set-up shop and do the same thing less-effectively (since they can't provide on-demand "potions")Not part of the FAQ, but a comment:
if the infusion last only 1 day and then become inert and don't count against the alchemist number of extracts he can sell "24 hours potions" on the cheap.
Very handy. I would open a shop.
Infusion include spells that have a range of personal and can't be made into potions, like Shield and See invisible.
Spellcasting services are done at the shop of the seller, so a there is little utility in buying the casting of Bull strength unless you are going to a fight just outside the seller shop. On the other hand a infusion of Bull strength (if it were to last only 24 hours) would cost like the casting of bull strength or little more and give all teh benefits of a potion.50 gp * caster level * spell level vs. 10 gp * caster level * spell
is a big difference.
(let's get a few more FAQ request on post 11, apparently the limit to be seen is around 25-30)
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I understand that JJ is one of the designers, and in fact helped design the class, but I'll say flat-out I would never use such a rule at my table - or if I played in a game where that was the rule, I simply would never take the Infusion discover because it isn't worth the risk of even potentially losing a slot through:
-An NPC waiting until you were asleep and then swiping your alchemist's kit
-A party member carrying an extra dying in a combat from which the party retreats
-A party member dying in such a way that the body is unrecoverable (like falling into a crevice)
Worse yet, JJ's statement is that it continues to occupy an extract slot until it's used. What happens if the infusion gets poured out onto the ground? It wasn't 'used', and now it never can be.
To me, such a rule is far too potentially punitive.
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If it was poured into the ground it don't exist anymore.
Click the FAQ button, maybe the Dev will decide that it is too punitive and change/correct the wording of infusion. Or specify that it last 24 hours.
The reason to have it occupy a slot is very simple: to avoid the creation of cheap potions [actually 0 cost].
If the infusion i prepared yesterday still exist and it don't use my extract slot, I will spend today preparing only infusions of cure spells. Tomorrow I will have plenty of healing quasi-potions and my full allotment of extracts.
Even having them last 24 hours would be easily abusable if the weren't using up a extract slots. We would have alchemist players prepare all the leftover extract slots as infusion just prior to getting their 8 hours of sleep and the next day recover the full roster of extracts.
So they would have available in a day the leftover from the previous day (for 16 hours) and that day full roster.
Oh, I don't think that having it occupy a slot is a bad idea; that's not the part that that bothers me. It's the idea that it occupies the slot as long as it remains unused, and the alchemist has no say in it whatsoever, that bothers me.
I don't even think it should have a hard time limit. Since the extract rules state that the alchemist is basically infusing some of his magic into it, I think the best ruling would be that when preparing spells, the alchemist can 'recall' that portion of his magic from any infusions he wishes, rendering them inert and freeing up that slot.
One could argue that an alchemist could set up a 'potions' shop then and swindle people. Let him. He's going to get run out of town or lynched by doing so.
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I pretty much read the alchemist's say into it anyway, to be honest; if the alchemist doesn't want a particular infusion around anymore, simply declare it inert and regain the slot. Works for me.