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1) Apply any appropriate DR the initial target has.
2) Split the remainder.
3) Caster of Shield Other does not get to apply any DR to his half, as the source of the damage is now Shield Other which deals untyped magical damage.
Reapeat steps 2) & 3) as required until the last Hp of damage is dealt.
That's the reading of it I'd agree with at any rate.
Oh... and 4) Your GM vapourises you as he realises how much this will slow down the game :P
1) Apply any appropriate DR the initial target has.
2) Split the remainder.
3) Caster of Shield Other does not get to apply any DR to his half, as the source of the damage is now Shield Other which deals untyped magical damage.Reapeat steps 2) & 3) as required until the last Hp of damage is dealt.
That's the reading of it I'd agree with at any rate.
Oh... and 4) Your GM vapourises you as he realises how much this will slow down the game :P
I disagree with you that Shield Other deals untyped magical damage. I believe it worked that way in a previous edition, but by the wording of Shield Other, the damage is dealt to you by the actual source.
"Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you."
If your friend gets hit by an orc with a longsword for 10 damage, he takes 5 slashing damage from the orc and you take 5 slashing damage from the orc.
You also have to pay attention to the fact that the amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you.
So, if two characters have Stoneskin and Shield Other on each other:
Character A takes a 50 damage hit. A takes 25 and B takes 25. B's 25 is then split, so that A takes 13 and B takes 12.
13 splits to A7 and B6, then to B3 and A3, then A2 and B1, which ultimately means A is taking 34, while B is taking 16. You can save time next time by saying the guy hit takes 2/3 of the damage.
Now, remember, all this damage is from one single source, so DR applies only once, at the end here.
That means A ultimately takes 24 and B takes 6. You got both Stoneskins, but only once each.
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I disagree with you that Shield Other deals untyped magical damage. I believe it worked that way in a previous edition, but by the wording of Shield Other, the damage is dealt to you by the actual source.
I'm reasonably sure that's not how damage transfer works in Pathfinder, that said I can't find any definitive rule on the matter but there is a quote from JJ which backs it up.
James, out of curiosity:
Does damage received via the spell Shield Other bypass regeneration in any way?
*ducks*
- Gauss
Nope. If you get hit with fire damage, and that damage is split, the person who takes half from your shield other spell just takes raw, unspecified damage. Which is pretty much regenerabtable by all forms of regeneration.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=404?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Qu estions-Here#20186
1) Apply any appropriate DR the initial target has.
2) Split the remainder.
3) Caster of Shield Other does not get to apply any DR to his half, as the source of the damage is now Shield Other which deals untyped magical damage.Reapeat steps 2) & 3) as required until the last Hp of damage is dealt.
That's the reading of it I'd agree with at any rate.
Oh... and 4) Your GM vapourises you as he realises how much this will slow down the game :P
I disagree with you that Shield Other deals untyped magical damage. I believe it worked that way in a previous edition, but by the wording of Shield Other, the damage is dealt to you by the actual source.
"Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you."
If your friend gets hit by an orc with a longsword for 10 damage, he takes 5 slashing damage from the orc and you take 5 slashing damage from the orc.
You also have to pay attention to the fact that the amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you.
So, if two characters have Stoneskin and Shield Other on each other:
Character A takes a 50 damage hit. A takes 25 and B takes 25. B's 25 is then split, so that A takes 13 and B takes 12.
13 splits to A7 and B6, then to B3 and A3, then A2 and B1, which ultimately means A is taking 34, while B is taking 16. You can save time next time by saying the guy hit takes 2/3 of the damage.
Now, remember, all this damage is from one single source, so DR applies only once, at the end here.
That means A ultimately takes 24 and B takes 6. You got both Stoneskins, but only once each.
It would work like this with the exception of the DR and/or resists as shown by the above quote from James Jacobs. Since the damage is raw, unspecified damage, no DR or resistance would prevent you from taking it, meaning having two people covered in this way is a little silly since it's effectively like a 1/3 shield instead of a 1/2 shield. Having the entire party covered like this would be better since it would spread any damage from any source across the entire party, but the math involved would be atrocious. The easier way to do this is to play a Paladin with the Sacred Shield ACF, which halves all damage done by your smite target to allies within 10 feet. This gets really broken at level 20 when the Paladin hits level 20, because he grants regeneration to those allies meaning they can never die. Basically, if the party is fighting a big single enemy, they are immortal as long as they remain within 10 feet of the Paladin.
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The interpretation of Shield Other that my group has always used has been the following.
The caster has made the conscious decision to allow Shield Other to transfer damage to himself and therefore has agreed to forgo all methods of avoiding that damage, including but not limited to:
- natural or magical damage reduction and resistances or immunities
- futher transferrence, such as being the target of another Shield Other spell
YMMV
One of the downsides to a "communal shield other" is going to be area effect stuff...
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I'd be very tempted to say you can only be subject to one Shield Other at a time, regardless of whether it's as protector or protected.
Same Effect with Differing Results
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
To my mind this means that the last version is the one that counts, if your companion casts Shield Other on you to protect you and you then cast it on him, yours is the one which works as it is the last spell in the series cast.
I'd be very tempted to say you can only be subject to one Shield Other at a time, regardless of whether it's as protector or protected.
To my mind this means that the last version is the one that counts, if your companion casts Shield Other on you to protect you and you then cast it on him, yours is the one which works as it is the last spell in the series cast.Same Effect with Differing Results
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
Exactly. If you "cast it on multiple people", as the OP says, then you're getting half the damage taken by several other people - not the other way around. Any particular person can only redirect half their damage to one other person, no more.
Also: stoneskin says that it reduces damage from weapons. Shield other is not a weapon; even if the type of damage is unchanged, the source isn't.
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Party consists of cleric, paladin, inquisitor and monk.
Cleric casts shield other on monk. Whenever the monk takes hit point damage, the monk only takes half damage (round down-->game system), and the cleric takes whatever damage the monk didn't take: e.g. monk gets hit for 21 damage, monk takes 10 and cleric takes 11.
Paladin casts shield other on the monk. The cleric's spell is still in effect.
Inquisitor casts shield other on the monk. The cleric's and paladin's spells are still in effect.
Spells are not sentient. They are not aware of other spells; they just do what the spell's description says they will do.
The monk (protected by all three spells) is hit for 21 damage. The monk takes 10 damage and the cleric takes the damage not taken by the monk=11. So does the paladin. So does the inquisitor.
From that single hit doing 21 damage to the monk, the monk has taken 10 damage, the cleric has taken 11 damage, the paladin has taken 11 damage and the inquisitor has taken 11 damage. The party as a whole has taken 43 damage from a single hit which did 21 damage.
The party then all gets caught in the same fireball, and they all fail their saves. The fireball does 35 damage. The monk takes 17 damage, while the cleric, paladin and inquisitor all take 35+18=53 damage each.
I'm not convinced that multiple shield other spells are a good idea.
I'm not convinced that multiple shield other spells are a good idea.
That's not really what they're saying: Cleric casts it on the Monk, the Monk uses UMD and a wand to cast it on the Paladin, the Paladin casts it on the Inquisitor and the Inquisitor casts it on the Cleric.
Now the monk gets hit with 21 damage
Monk takes 10
Cleric takes: 11/2 = 5
Inquisitor takes 6/2 = 3
Paladin takes 3/2 = 1 (which would be split in have to 0 I beleive)
Monk takes the 1 from the Paladin.
So that 21 damage hit did 11 to the monk 5 to the cleric, 3 to the inquisitor, and zero to the paladin... I think, but I'm not sure because I'm really confused.
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Party consists of cleric, paladin, inquisitor and monk.
Cleric casts shield other on monk. Whenever the monk takes hit point damage, the monk only takes half damage (round down-->game system), and the cleric takes whatever damage the monk didn't take: e.g. monk gets hit for 21 damage, monk takes 10 and cleric takes 11.
Paladin casts shield other on the monk. The cleric's spell is still in effect.
Inquisitor casts shield other on the monk. The cleric's and paladin's spells are still in effect.
Spells are not sentient. They are not aware of other spells; they just do what the spell's description says they will do.
Except that the rules specifically state "The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others."
The same spell has been applied to the monk multiple times, only the last one has any effect, the others are still there for dispel magic, etc. but the only one redirecting damage is the Inquisitors as the last one cast. It has nothing to do with sentience, simply that the most recent of multiple copies of the same spell is the one which activates.
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I'm not convinced that multiple shield other spells are a good idea.That's not really what they're saying: Cleric casts it on the Monk, the Monk uses UMD and a wand to cast it on the Paladin, the Paladin casts it on the Inquisitor and the Inquisitor casts it on the Cleric.
Now the monk gets hit with 21 damage
Monk takes 10
Cleric takes: 11/2 = 5
Inquisitor takes 6/2 = 3
Paladin takes 3/2 = 1 (which would be split in have to 0 I beleive)
Monk takes the 1 from the Paladin.So that 21 damage hit did 11 to the monk 5 to the cleric, 3 to the inquisitor, and zero to the paladin... I think, but I'm not sure because I'm really confused.
I don't think that this would work!
According to the spell description:-
Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage.
I don't think that the damage the caster of shield other takes would transfer to a second caster, because the damage the original caster takes from shield other is neither from a 'wound' nor an 'attack'!
Same Effect with Differing Results: The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
I would always use this rule.
Prerequisite: Accept that the caster and the target are effected by the spell.
Cleric Joe casts Shield Other (1) on Fighter Bob
Both are effected by the spell, Bob is protected
Paladin Tim casts Shield Other (2) on Cleric Joe
Shield Other (1) is suppressed, Bob is unprotected and Joe is protected by Tim`s Shield Other (2).
Okay, to summarize for my own understanding
- You can split the damage among the whole party
- Stoneskin / resist elements only applies for the guy actually getting hit
Those specific effects, yes. Something like ablative barrier (which applies to all damage), no.
Okay, to summarize for my own understanding
- You can split the damage among the whole party
- Stoneskin / resist elements only applies for the guy actually getting hit
- Bouncing damage back and forth between two people shielding each other... does work?
- To make it ridiculously good you need fast healing, not DR, which is much harder to get?
-...what if you are ethereal? Would that reduce the untyped magical damage you get hit with by shielding an other or not?
1) No read the RAW Combining Magic Effects
2) Correct3) No read the RAW Combining Magic Effects
4) Fast Healing works in the normal way, DR/- should also apply
5) No. Gaseous form gives you DR/magic and this DR is ignored because it is magic damage or damage from a spell (See DR RAW). Ethereal Jaunt etc. does not work because you are still connected with the material plane otherwise Shield Other would end.
I'd just say that the incoming damage from Shield Other cannot be redirected.
If the monk is shielded by the cleric, the cleric by the paladin, the paladin by the inquisitor, and the inquisitor by the monk...
Monk gets hit, takes half and the cleric takes half.
Cleric gets hit, takes half, and the paladin takes half.
Paladin gets hit, takes half, and the inquisitor takes half.
Inquisitor gets hit, takes half, and the monk takes half.
Let's say they all get hit by a fireball dealing 40 damage and fail their saves.
Monk takes 20, and cleric takes 20.
Cleric takes 20, and paladin takes 20.
Paladin takes 20, and Inquisitor takes 20.
Inquisitor takes 20, and monk takes 20.
They've all just taken...40 damage.
DR/- wouldn't apply if regular DR wouldn't apply. It's just like other DR and doesn't reduce spell damage.
The rules for casting the same spell multiple times on the same target doesn't apply in this situation. Shield Other targets a single creature, and applies a number of benefits including sending half the damage the target receives to the caster. So as long as the cleric casts it on the monk, the monk casts it on the paladin, the paladin casts it on the inquisitor, and the inquisitor casts it on the cleric, no one has actually had Shield Other cast on them multiple times.
This setup is completely legal, but would probably slow down combat significantly. Additionally, since the spell does not specify what kind of damage it is after transfer and whether the source is considered the original attack or the Shield Other spell, you should check with your DM to get his/her ruling on this. My personal opinion is that it is untyped magical damage caused by the Shield Other spell and would therefore bypass most forms of protection.