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i have been playing around with keeping this core ability relevant from level 1 through level 20. especially since it seems to stand as equivalent to a 6-level spell progression in terms of it's 'weight' as a class feature.
looking for a second opinion from those with greater system mastery for refinement.
here a goes:
Sneak Attack
Sneak Attack:
If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.
*Fear - foe is Frightened, Panicked, or Shaken.
*Lethargy - foe is Fatigued or Exhausted.
*Pain - foe is under a Bleed or Pain effect.
*Queasiness - foe is Sickened or Nauseated.
*Restraint - foe is Entangled or Grappled.
*Sensory Deprivation - foe is Dazzled, Deafened, or under temporary loss of a primary sense (Blindsense, etc).
*Shock - foe is Dazed, Disabled, or Staggered.
*Obscurement - foe is under any Concealment (or Invisibility).
*Strange Anatomy - foe has a special quality which immunizes it.
*Tactics - foe cannot be flanked due to a feat or class ability (Improved Uncanny Dodge, etc.)
...
('half sneak attack dice' is 1d6/2d6/3d6/4d6/5d6 at levels 3/7/11/15/19)
Seems more like making those as Rogue Talents would be easier.
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possibly.
i see sneak attack as a centerpiece class feature. like spells. and spells, even 4-level progression spells, seem to stay relevant. sneak attack seems to fade away. this proposal expands upon the ways to achieve it at half effect. but even at half effect, though damage added is about a modest +1 per level, it interacts with rogue talents that add effects to sneak attack. this gives it the tactical diversity to be equivalent to 6-level spells. now every time the wizard gets a new spell level, the rogue gets a new 'sphere' which she may apply her main class feature to as well.
i see a 5th level rogue as somebody who could use sneak tactics to get the better of anybody in town.
why not allow a 15th level rogue to use sneak tactics to get the better of magical beasts and dimensional outsiders?
...
Maybe make it to where they can get Rogue Talents that allow them to get their sneak attacks on combinations of those situations.
What is being hinted at here reminds me of the paladin's mercy feature. I could see effects being stacked onto sneak attack in the same way.
Which makes Rogue Talents a good setup for these.
Oh god imagine a Anti-Paladin in a Party with a Rogue with them syncing up their Cruelities and their Sneak Attack effects.
Wait I thought a Rogue got Sneak Attack in some of those situations?
I honestly really like this idea, but I do think that making these as Rogue Talents really fits better. It also allows you to split the "after level 11" part into advanced talents.
However, I can see the reasoning that it deprives a rogue of her normal talents, thus not really upping the power of the class (which seems to be the intent). As a result, I'd recommend actually increasing the number of Rogue Talents given. Maybe an additional talent at every even number of sneak attack dice, so 3, 7, 11, 15 and 19. I would limit these bonus talents to only talents that modify sneak attack.
You can always take the Extra Rogue Talent Feat. Most Rogues I see only have a small number of Talents to begin with.
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@Azaelas Fayth,
i am of the opinion that sneak attack, as a main class feature, should operate more broadly without encroaching on feats and talents.
feats and talents ought to allow customization of an already healthy class feature, not supplement it's basic functionality.
@Mauril,
you may be right in that the "after level 11" stuff is overkill. this piece of the proposal is a large part of what i am asking the community here. essentially: is it fair to allow rogue built-in options for applying (half) her sneak attack dice to creatures such as high-level barbarians, oozes and outsiders, and invisible creatures?
i disagree that the rogue needs more talents. 10 is enough. like how barbarian gets 10 rage powers. also, as Azaelas Fayth pointed out, there is the option to trade a feat for a talent.
now maybe the "after 11" stuff ought to be feats or talents (i think one already is). but i feel strongly that the other conditional secondary precision damage options should be built-in.
am i wrong in saying the balance comparison point is looking at what a full 6 (or even 4) levels of spells can do?
@Ciaran Barnes,
yes, it was the mercy feature of paladin's lay on hands that sort of operates as a pseudo-precedent for my proposal.
in fact, when i first proposed it (tucked away in my rogue revision), instead of every other level (3/5/7/9/11/13/15/17/19), i proposed it for every fourth level (3/7/11/15/19).
is this original proposal (every 4) more reasonable?
I agree on that as well the problem is it would fit easier into the current Rogue design.
I might say add the functions into already existing rogue talents or a Scaling Talent/Feat might work.
Or make it a Favoured Class Bonus.
Hmm... That might be one of the Class Favoured Class Bonuses for my settings.
I think it's a fine house rule, fits thematically and is balanced. I do not think it should encroach on rogue talents - the rogue doesn't get enough of those, and forcing it to lower it's out of combat utility to stay relevant in combat is unnecessary.
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for those that agree on non-encroachment, what paradigm is best?
Conservative - (3/7/11/15/19)
or
Liberal - (3/5/7/9/11/13/15/17/19)
also, which idea is not overpowered? one, both, or neither?:
*at higher levels, sneak attack can thwart racial immunities, tactical immunities (Improved Uncanny Dodge), and concealment/invisibility, by selecting these advanced options.
*at higher levels, rogue can re-choose a condition to grant it full dice instead of half.
Keep in mind that the rogue capstone is the ability to apply conditions.
Master Strike (Ex): Upon reaching 20th level, a rogue becomes incredibly deadly when dealing sneak attack damage. Each time the rogue deals sneak attack damage, she can choose one of the following three effects: the target can be put to sleep for 1d4 hours, paralyzed for 2d6 rounds, or slain. Regardless of the effect chosen, the target receives a Fortitude save to negate the additional effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the rogue's level + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. Once a creature has been the target of a master strike, regardless of whether or not the save is made, that creature is immune to that rogue's master strike for 24 hours. Creatures that are immune to sneak attack damage are also immune to this ability.
These conditions (which are a capstone mind you) still allow a save. I'd suggest that this save and immunity mechanic continue to apply through all the conditions.
I'd honestly just straight up steal the anti-paladin's Cruelty list, at those levels. Every three levels, the rogue gets to add one of the following as an optional effect on her sneak attacks. This effect offers a save equal to 10 + 1/2 rogue level + Int modifier.
You'd probably have to change Cursed to be non-magical (but applying the same effects) and diseased and poisoned would need to be swapped out for something else.
I'd still apply these at third level and every three after that (3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18) rather than on even dice numbers to keep the mechanics consistent. Require the sneak attack to deal some amount of damage to apply the condition, but don't require them to sacrifice any damage.
I think allowing half sneak attack dice vs immune opponents as just a 19th level ability. I suggest that instead of the full dice bonus only because I already suggested the full dice bonus being the norm.
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Mauril,
certain rogue talents trigger upon landing a successful sneak attack. such as Bleeding Attack and Slow Reactions. these abilities don't require a save because they are balanced by the fact that actually landing a sneak attack is difficult.
my proposal is to increase the number of sneak attacks a rogue will be able to make by broadening the requirements of what qualifies as a sneak attack. instead of just flanking and DX-denial, a 3rd level rogue who chooses "fear" (frightened, panicked, shaken) from my options above may now apply (half) her sneak attack dice against those she (or her barbarian ally) successfully intimidates (by making them shaken). this is the interaction between talents such as those above and my proposal here.
i stand behind rogue talents as adding effects to a successfully landed sneak attack, but the reason i am making this proposal is to give a balanced and customizable way for the sneak attack ability itself to come up in play more frequently and against more challenging threats - allowing the rogue to be a more frequent and tactical contributor in a combat encounter.
...
on a separate but related note, as the topic of rogue talents came up, what do you all think of this class feature being added to the rogue:
Talented Strike:
Talented Strike:
At 10th level, a rogue may apply the effects of up to two rogue talents at a time to her sneak attack. If she knows more than two, she may select two different talents for each sneak attack she makes, declaring her intent before she makes her attack roll. These special talents are marked with an asterisk.
Ah. I misunderstood. I was under the impression that you were applying those conditions to someone with your sneak attack, not allowing them to gain sneak attack against things with those conditions.
Well, in that case, carry on. *whistles non chalantly*
It's really cool to see your brainchild influence the work of others :D
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maybe the way i word it is confusing?
how about:
"At 3rd level, a rogue may apply half her sneak attack dice (round down) as conditional precision damage. Choose a set of conditions below which she may hereafter use to apply this secondary precision damage. Every two levels after 3rd, select an additional set of conditions. This secondary damage does not stack with primary sneak attack damage.
*Fear - foe is Frightened, Panicked, or Shaken.
*Lethargy - foe is Fatigued or Exhausted.
*Pain - foe is under a Bleed or Pain effect.
*Queasiness - foe is Sickened or Nauseated.
*Restraint - foe is Entangled or Grappled.
*Sensory Deprivation - foe is Dazzled, Deafened, or under temporary loss of a primary sense (Blindsense, etc).
*Shock - foe is Dazed, Disabled, or Staggered.
..."
ps. Cheapy, for what it's worth (0$), i credit you in my rogue revision! but yeah, i mostly synthesize and refine others' ideas here. it is my 2nd/fresh perspective advantage. for what it's worth, though your math may be spot on, i criticize your removal of the joy of the rogue player of rolling tons of d6's... this somatic component is important!
Critical Strike
"Your underhanded style of combat allows your attack to best be delivered to your opponent's most critical points."
Prerequisite: Sneak Attack +4d6
Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit, you can apply your dexterity modifier to the damage roll as precision based damage. Furthermore, you treat your rogue level as your base attack for the purpose of qualifying for (combat,critical) feats, and you can apply the effects of one (combat, critical) feat when you deal sneak attack damage.
Too much?
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or, how about:
(talent)
Backstab*:
A rogue with this talent may apply her Dexterity modifier to damage on a critical hit she scores with a sneak attack.
(advanced talent)
Critical Strike*:
The rogue gains a bonus critical feat (see Feats), treating her rogue level as her base attack bonus for the purpose of qualifying for it. She may only apply this feat when she deals sneak attack damage. A rogue must have the backstab talent before selecting this advanced talent.
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alrighty folks,
after some mulling about, and listening to your input, i think the semi-encroachment approach is best - that the fair amount of extra conditions which may apply secondary sneak attack dice to is 2-3 every 4 rogue levels. (with a caveat - see below).
that is, this language:
Sneak Attack (addendum)
...
At 3rd level, a rogue may apply half her sneak attack dice (round down) as conditional precision damage. Choose a set of conditions below which the rogue may hereafter use to apply this secondary precision damage against her foes. At 7th level, and again every four rogue levels thereafter, the rogue selects an additional set of conditions. This secondary damage does not stack with primary sneak attack damage.
*Fear - foe is Frightened, Panicked, or Shaken.
*Lethargy - foe is Fatigued or Exhausted.
*Pain - foe is under a Bleed or Pain effect.
*Queasiness - foe is Sickened or Nauseated.
*Restraint - foe is Entangled or Grappled.
*Sensory Deprivation - foe is Dazzled, Deafened, or under temporary loss of a primary sense (Blindsense, etc).
*Shock - foe is Dazed, Disabled, or Staggered.
...
plus this new feat, in case a character wants to take it up a notch with feat investment:
Brutal Opportunist (combat)
You can take deadly advantage of your foes' unfortunate conditions
Prerequisites: Sneak attack +2d6
Benefit: You may choose another set of conditions (see Rogue) to apply your secondary sneak attack damage dice to.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times, each time selecting a new set of conditions.
That's a great rule. I'll probably use it in my next game if anyone wants to play rogue
Would it not be simpler to phrase the altered ability like this? As it is the phrase "as conditional precision damage" seems weird to me. Talking about it as secondary damage and then specifying that it doesn't stack with normal sneak attack damage just seems a little cumbersome. Just say it applies half the dice if they don't qualify under normal conditions and move on.
"At 3rd level, a rogue may choose one of the following sets of conditions. Against an opponent who does not normally qualify for sneak attack but is suffering from one of the selected conditions, a rogue may apply half of her sneak attack dice (rounded down). At 7th level and every four levels thereafter, the rogue may select another set of conditions."
One thing I'm not sure on is whether sneak immune creatures should qualify for half damage, or if it should just apply to sneak-able creatures who don't currently qualify. I say this because, as written, an elemental who is flanked doesn't get the extra damage applied, but it does if you can get it to fail vs a fear effect (like Intimidate to demoralize).
I'd consider a feat for sneak attacking one group of normally immune creatures (like oozes or elementals) at half dice, and quarter dice for condition-induced sneaks. But that's me.
I'd also say that "dazzled" is too light a condition to gain sneak attack. Dazzled is only a -1 to attack and perception and can be laid down with a cantrip.
I would consider adding Dazed and Prone to the list also.
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Mauril,
the precise language has alluded me so far. your version does seem clearer. thanks. i will elaborate further incorporating the 'except against the normally immune' (i think the key words here are 'as precision damage') and the 'prone' thing:
...
Sneak Attack (addendum)
"At 3rd level, a rogue may choose one of the following sets of conditions to exploit. Against an opponent who does not normally qualify for sneak attack but is suffering from one of the selected conditions, a rogue may apply half of her sneak attack dice (rounded down) as precision damage with a successful attack. At 7th level and every four levels thereafter, the rogue may select another set of conditions.
*Compromised - foe is Prone or standing up from Prone.
*Fear - foe is Frightened, Panicked, or Shaken.
*Lethargy - foe is Fatigued or Exhausted.
*Pain - foe is under a Bleed or Pain effect.
*Queasiness - foe is Sickened or Nauseated.
*Restraint - foe is Entangled or Grappled.
*Sensory Deprivation - foe is Dazzled, Deafened, or under temporary loss of a primary sense (Blindsense, etc).
*Shock - foe is Dazed, Disabled, or Staggered."
...
also, Dazed (Daze), Dazzled (Flare), and Fatigued (Touch of Fatigue) can all be produced by a cantrip. this is to interact with the rogue talent Minor Magic. my view is that at 3rd level if you can get a monster to fail a save against a cantrip (DC 12?) then it deserves to be set up for a (half) sneak attack.
also, i am still brainstorming some foils for the tactical (Uncanny Dodge, etc), alternate biology (Ooze), and concealment (Invisibility) protections. feat? advanced talent? half? full?...
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Multiplying Sneak Attack Dice (idea #1)
On a successful critical hit, half-again any sneak attack dice are added to the final damage roll. For each factor the critical multiplier is greater than 2, half-again any sneak attack dice are cumulatively added to the final damage roll.
for a standard critical multiplier weapon (x2), i think it averages out to about +1 extra damage per level on a crit...
...
Multiplying Sneak Attack Dice (idea #2)
On a successful critical hit with a sneak attack, a rogue gains a damage bonus equal to her number of sneak attack dice to her damage roll. This damage is multiplied by the critical multiplier of the delivering weapon as normal.
again, for a standard critical multiplier weapon (x2), i think this averages out to about +1 extra damage per level on a crit... also, this bonus damage is effective immediately at level one, and scales with every odd level, (the above proposal scales with every second-odd level, ie 3/7/11/15/19)...
...
bear in mind, one of these proposals to be combined with the proposal directly above! (plus the new feat a few replies above)
Multiplying Sneak Attack Dice (idea #1)
On a successful critical hit, half-again any sneak attack dice are added to the final damage roll. For each factor the critical multiplier is greater than 2, half-again any sneak attack dice are cumulatively added to the final damage roll.
for a standard critical multiplier weapon (x2), i think it averages out to about +1 extra damage per level on a crit...
...
Multiplying Sneak Attack Dice (idea #2)
On a successful critical hit with a sneak attack, a rogue gains a damage bonus equal to her number of sneak attack dice to her damage roll. This damage is multiplied by the critical multiplier of the delivering weapon as normal.
again, for a standard critical multiplier weapon (x2), i think this averages out to about +1 extra damage per level on a crit... also, this bonus damage is effective immediately at level one, and scales with every odd level, (the above proposal scales with every second-odd level, ie 3/7/11/15/19)...
...
bear in mind, one of these proposals to be combined with the proposal directly above! (plus the new feat a few replies above)
I like number two myself, it seems easier to calculate.
& Considering a Fighter can get a +20 Static before STR that is multiplied on Crits at level 8-10 it isn't going to edge out the Fighter anytime soon.
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+5 Toaster (and Azaelas Fayth): i agree. but do you think this revision is too powerful to give out 'for free'?
kyrt-rider: i agree that the Sneak Attack mechanic, as written, lacks a broad applicability. did you look at the earlier proposals on this thread? in short, my design goal here is to roll more d6's, not less - ie, to grant the feature's effects, largely unchanged, under more circumstances, such as through conditions and critical hits. if you'd like to be rid of the d6's, you should look at Cheapy's solution.
anywho, so far the sum proposal combines into:
If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied . Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.
*Compromised - foe is Prone or standing up from Prone.
*Fear - foe is Frightened, Panicked, or Shaken.
*Lethargy - foe is Fatigued or Exhausted.
*Obscuration - foe has Concealment.
*Pain - foe is under a Bleed or Pain effect.
*Queasiness - foe is Sickened or Nauseated.
*Restraint - foe is Entangled or Grappled.
*Sensory Deprivation - foe is Dazzled, Deafened, or under temporary loss of a primary sense (Blindsense, etc).
*Shock - foe is Dazed, Disabled, or Staggered.
...
New Feat
Brutal Opportunist (Combat)
You can take deadly advantage of your foes' unfortunate conditions
Prerequisites: Sneak attack +3d6
Benefit: You may choose another set of conditions (see Rogue) to apply half your sneak attack damage dice to.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times, each time selecting a new set of conditions.
Maybe make it to where they deal 1 point of Damage per Sneak Attack die regardless then roll the Dice when they actually meet the Sneak Attack requirements.
And allow them to inflict conditions every time they increase the Number of Dice. Say something akin to Mercies. You can pick one Mercy and whenever you meet the requirements to roll the dice and deal damage you inflict those effects to the target.
Let them be considered to flank when they threaten a creature who is threatened by another ally. Might see a lot more long spear wielding rogues. I don't think a rogue should ever out damage a fighter or barbarian, but should be able to add dependable moderate damage as a melee support character. They don't buff, blast, or tank so they should find a reliable niche in a combat encounter, and be able to pull more than their fair share outside of combat as well.
I really like Azaelas' idea of a counter mercy condition. That definitely capitalizes on melee support without being a caster.
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Azaelas Fayth and Byrdology: in my view, the main problem with Sneak Attack is not that it isn't a solid ability if it actually works, but that it doesn't work often enough.
you could look to rogue talents like Slow Reactions and Crippling Strike that advance the battlefield control of a successful sneak attack. This would be a good place to start implementing your 'No Mercy' suggestions.
but my design goal here is to give the mechanic, as a central class feature, a built-in way to increase the number of strategic game situations that would trigger it. and to that end, i have no interest in a flat bonus to damage - where is the strategy in that?
Byrdology, your 'cross-flank' idea strikes me as too liberal. i imagine nearly every strike the rogue makes in a combat as suddenly qualifying for SA dice - and from reach! an over-adjustment i'd say.
...
i like Sneak Attack, and i think it has great potential, but i would like to see more varied viable strategies than surprising or flanking your foes to get a chance to roll those additional d6's.
A cross flank, as you put it would give the SA a more reliable method of execution, but that is why it wouldn't get SA dice... Just static damage. Re work the wording so that it says, "when a rogue attacks an enemy that is threatened by an ally..." That way it could apply to ranged weapons w/in 30ft.
Adding in "anti- mercies" to successful SAs frees up rogue talents for more versatile customization.
Maybe I am understanding you wrong, but these suggestions seem to be in line with your goal, if not your means.
Another suggestion would be to add sneak attack damage to an attack in lieu of a successful critical hit.
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I am saying that:
On each normal attack a Rogue gets 1 Point of Precision Damage per Sneak Attack Dice.
When they meet the normal conditions for a Sneak Attack they instead roll the Dice.
A Rogue would get abilities at the same levels that a Paladin gets Mercies. These abilities follow the Mercy rules and options. The difference is when a Rogue Rolls their Sneak Attack Dice and successfully deals damage the conditions take effect.
So a Rogue can choose Mercies as a Paladin but instead they actually inflict the Mercies... I guess instead of Paladin Mercies it is more of an Anti-Paladin's Cruelties.
I am saying that:
On each normal attack a Rogue gets 1 Point of Precision Damage per Sneak Attack Dice.
When they meet the normal conditions for a Sneak Attack they instead roll the Dice.
A Rogue would get abilities at the same levels that a Paladin gets Mercies. These abilities follow the Mercy rules and options. The difference is when a Rogue Rolls their Sneak Attack Dice and successfully deals damage the conditions take effect.
So a Rogue can choose Mercies as a Paladin but instead they actually inflict the Mercies... I guess instead of Paladin Mercies it is more of an Anti-Paladin's Cruelties.
You win. This is now my default home brew for rogues now.
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I am saying that:
On each normal attack a Rogue gets 1 Point of Precision Damage per Sneak Attack Dice.
When they meet the normal conditions for a Sneak Attack they instead roll the Dice.
A Rogue would get abilities at the same levels that a Paladin gets Mercies. These abilities follow the Mercy rules and options. The difference is when a Rogue Rolls their Sneak Attack Dice and successfully deals damage the conditions take effect.
So a Rogue can choose Mercies as a Paladin but instead they actually inflict the Mercies... I guess instead of Paladin Mercies it is more of an Anti-Paladin's Cruelties.
i'm not saying this is wrong. in fact i like it. but it keeps SA as a narrow ability, a more specialized mechanic. a creature who is subject to a (normal) SA is in big trouble already. adding conditions to that pours salt in the wound.
my focus is broadening the cases in which SA applies to a given damage roll; i want a more generalized mechanic. there are already some excellent talents (marked with an asterisk!) that trigger off of a successful sneak attack. my opinion of your suggestions stands on those precedents. also, you should check out the Ambush mechanic from the 3rd party publisher Rogue Glory. this could serve as a model for your proposals as well.
i'm not against specialization, but my design philosophy is to create a built-in generalization for the Sneak Attack mechanic. i think further specialization should be served by rogue talents. not vice-versa.
Wait are you wanting them to be able to sneak Attack a Creature with certain conditions or such?
Because IIRC a Rogue already can. Or at least they could in 3.5 thanks to the way most conditions worked.
Ok give me some time because I think some of those conditions allow for Sneak Attacks...
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latest update (changes in ):
If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.
At 3rd level, a rogue may exploit a grouping of conditions chosen from the list below. Against a foe suffering from one of her selected conditions, she , and she may apply half of her sneak attack dice (rounded down) to damage rolls. This extra damage does not stack with itself nor with full sneak attack damage - apply only the greatest if conditions overlap. At 7th level and every four levels thereafter, the rogue may select another set of conditions:
*Fatigue - foe is Fatigued or Exhausted.
*Fear - foe is Frightened, Panicked, or Shaken.
*Nausea - foe is Sickened or Nauseated.
*Pain - foe is under a Bleed or Pain effect.
*Prone - foe is Prone or standing up from Prone.
*Restraint - foe is Entangled, Grappled, or Pinned.
*Sensory Deprivation - foe is Blinded, Dazzled, or Deafened.
*Shock - foe is Dazed, Disabled, Staggered, or Stunned.
At 5th level, a rogue . These 'strike talents' are marked with an asterisk (*) under rogue talents. At 9th level, and every four rogue levels thereafter, she may layer the effects of an additional strike talent, to a maximum of five strike talents at 17th level. Advanced strike talents count as two talents for this application.
...
this gives the rogue something interesting at each iteration of sneak attack, allowing the class feature a measure of expansiveness. at even dice, a broadening of applicability. at odd dice, a deepening of utility. sneak attack is in my view a headline class feature, or at least it ought to be. i feel the above proposal gives it a robustness that justifies the conceptual/mechanical space it occupies in the rogue class.
(naturally, archetypes that poach the sneak attack ability do not also gain the condition exploitation and layered strike talents - those are rogue-only)
i think that a 3/4 BAB d8 HD non-casting class needs other viable options built-in, if not to escape encounters than to assist in the 'battlefield control' aspect of them. thus, the proposal for the low risk maneuver options. now a rogue needn't a fricken feat to attempt a reposition (fancy footwork) or steal (quick fingers) maneuver without getting whacked in the face; just a little set up and a dash o' luck.
let me know what you think. cheers.
The wording on the maneuver seems to imply that the rogue would get half her sneak attack damage added to untrained (or trained even) sunder attempts against a foe suffering from a condition she knows how to exploit. To clear that up, it should be two sentences or change the conjunction from "and" to "or". She may use an untrained maneuver or gain half her sneak attack dice.
As worded, I can still sneak attack a dazed fire elemental or a staggered ooze.