Bite + Gore


Rules Questions


If I have Toothy, am wielding a two-handed weapon, and am raging with Lesser Fiend Totem, am I able to make my primary attack with my weapon at full BAB, followed by two secondary attacks with my bite and gore attacks at the same penalty of -5? Does the head follow the 'one attack per limb' rule, seeing as it's not a limb?


the way I understand it to work... yes, bite and gore both at -5, and no, head follows no such rule (gargoyles get both a bite and a gore attack for instance as does the half-fiend minotaur used as an example of the half-fiend template).


... but I wouldn't allow the two bites of the half-orcs with Razortusk and the toothy alternate racial ability.


agreed, two bites is out...


cwslyclgh wrote:
agreed, two bites is out...

Besides it being silly, I'd think it would incur a hefty multi action penalty, correct?

Dark Archive

and Toothy is stated as not stacking with Razortusk in the APG FAQ

generally only one attack per natural weapon per round


You get -2 on your weapon attacks if you also use natural attacks. I'm not sure if that applies on the natural attacks or if they are only at -5 for being secondary.

Scarab Sages

GrandReaper wrote:
You get -2 on your weapon attacks if you also use natural attacks. I'm not sure if that applies on the natural attacks or if they are only at -5 for being secondary.

This is false.

PRD wrote:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.

All normal weapon attacks are made at normal bonuses/penalties, and then all natural attacks are made at a full BAB -5 and apply only half strength. If your feats/abilities (like power attack and such) apply penalties to all of your attacks then those apply to the natural attacks like normal.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Raisse wrote:


All normal weapon attacks are made at normal bonuses/penalties, and then all natural attacks are made at a full BAB -5 and apply only half strength. If your feats/abilities (like power attack and such) apply penalties to all of your attacks then those apply to the natural attacks like normal.

What about a tiefling barbarian that has the tiefling claws alternate racial ability, the lesser fiend totem gore attack, and a bite attack from animal fury barbarian power?

Do the gore and bite attacks still turn into secondary attacks when I attack with the claws or, like an animal with a claw/claw/bite primary attack routine, do they all still count as primary attacks?


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I guess, for me, this question can be broadened to ask: "Do bite and gore attacks become secondary attacks if the primary attacks are also natural weapons (e.g. claws)?"

While I know that, in many cases, claws (and other natural weapons for that matter), do indeed count as "weapons" (thereby causing the bite/gore to become secondary attacks) there are many cases of animals that have claw/claw/bite routines where the bite remains a primary attack with no attack penalties.

Another example would be the summoner's eidolon which, IIRC, does not have attack penalties when it has both the claws and the bite evolutions. I might be wrong about that one.

Sczarni

If all of your attacks are natural attacks, your primary natural attacks are calculated using your full BaB and your secondary natural attacks are at -5. The list of primary/secondary can be found in the Bestiary. Bites and claws are (almost) always primary, and things like hooves and tentacles are (almost) always secondary.

Sczarni

The moment you toss a manufactured weapon into the mix all natural attacks are at -5 to hit.

A Tengu with a claw/claw/bite routine makes all attacks at full BaB, but the moment it tries to combine those with a Blade Boot (for example) they all suffer -5, while the Boot is calculated at full BaB.

Sczarni

I think it was 3.5 (or 3.0) that designated things like a Tiger's claw/claw/bite as primary/secondary. Those rules were tossed out for Pathfinder. The Bestiary is your best place to look for rules concerning natural attacks.

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