Not Quite A Shadowdancer Optimization Thread


Advice


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I've got a Paladin/Shadowdancer, who just got her shadow companion.

Here are the things I've learned about Shadows.

1) They are very binary - they either mangle encounters, or they should be told to hide under the floor and come out when the screaming stops. For example, encounters against giant animals and monsters tend to be "Well, the Shadow can pretty much solo that encounter." Don't be a jerk; let the GM have fun with encounter design. Encounters with archers with magic bows result in dead Shadows very quickly. Make sure your Will Save doesn't suck.

2) The very first thing you should buy your Shadow companion is the Amulet of Ghosttouch Fists. This allows them to use simple weapons, open doors, and carry potions, for those creatures that are immune to STR drain.

3) Your Shadow's AC is going to suck. It's incredibly expensive to boost.

4) Your Shadow's Stealth and Perception numbers will never increase, but its BAB and Saves will increase with your level.

5) I am seriously considering spending 6000 GP to add +2 INT to my CHA circlet, with the skill gained being Use Magic Device. This lets me use a Wand of Inflict Light Wounds to patch up the Shadow if none of my party members are willing to do so. I'm also eying a 4500 GP purchase in a Wand of Blur; one charge gives the Shadow a 20% miss chance, which is more effective than attempting to boost its awful armor class. The idea of spending 21,000 GP on a Wand of Extended Displacement is very very tempting.

6) When using Communal Resist Energy, don't forget to include the Shadow. Energy attacks are one of the few things that can snuff out your Shadow like a candle flame.

7) Locked doors suddenly stop having much meaning to you and your party. Not that they usually mean anything to a Shadowdancer, though oddly enough Shadowdancer does NOT get Disable Device.

8) In some ways, your Shadow is more useful as a debuffing agent. It provides flanking, and if you're high enough level to have iteratives (which you will be for most builds either at the leve you have the Shadow or the level after), you probably drain 6-8 STR off of your opponent - which is a -4 to hit and -4 to damage in Melee.

9) Potions don't work on incorporeal creatures. In terms of expendables, it's scrolls, wands or nothin'.

10) It is cheaper to buy your Shadow an Amulet of Ghostttouch fist and let it use your backup +1 light mace than it is to get it a +1 ghost touch gauntlet.

11) There is currently nothing in the game that acts like a "ghost touch messenger bag" - an item that you can put another item in, hand the container to the Shadow, and the Shadow can take through walls. I wish this thing existed.

12) At Shadowdancer 4th, you can get Shadow Conjuration as a 1/day ability. Some particularly useful tricks for it:

Stone Call: This makes for difficult terrain which your Shadow ignores Particularly nasty against casters and archers who want to 5' step away from you (You'll have Combat Reflexes) or the Shadow.

Spiked Pit: Nothing says "fun" like putting a Spiked Pit in the fight. Nothing says "I'm cleverer than you are" like the fact that you can put Spiked Pit into a fight while Hiding in Plain Sight without having any verbal components. Nothing says "I make GMs cry" like putting a Shadow Illusion of the floor over the area you're creating a Spiked Pit of so people don't even see the pit...all while doing it silently with no somatic components from your ludicrous Stealth check.

Ablative Barrier: Cast this on your Shadow. It's effectively DR 5 or DR 1 if someone has a reason to disbelieve it by interacting with it, and boosts the AC by a small amount. It lasts 1 hour per level. Note that while it's in effect, your Shadow cannot move through solid objects, since it's encased in a force effect.

Stinking Cloud: What's more fun than a Shadow draining STR? A Shadow draining STR from a nauseated creature that only gets a move action.

Mad Monkeys: Give your Shadow pets to play with! Also disarm people!

Communal Mount: Need to get the entire party to a different town, fast? This will do it...don't spare the horses!

Even better for the Paladin/Shadowdancer build - all of these abilities are CHA based, which, as a Paladin, you didn't dump.


First, that's an amazing combination that I never would have thought of. You always think EVIL when you think of Shadows, but since the SD's companion matches YOUR alignment, the Paladin wouldn't have issue with it.

I'd love to hear more about this character and the build.

Dark Archive

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Great advice!

The loss of a shadow companion is harsh, compared to the relative ease of replacing an animal companion, or the coin expense of replacing a lost familiar.

So tempting to make a Shadowrager (Barbarian/Shadowdancer) or a Shadowhunter (Ranger/Shadowdancer).


Here's the character's journal. I'm currently editing the next bunch of entries to put up.

Here's the character's build.

Showing up at PFS games with a Paladin wearing Pharasma's spiral on her cloakpin, and a giggling Shadow hiding under her cloak and chattering in Celestial is entertaining.

Other ways to justify the Shadow is that it's a spirit bound to the Paladin for redemptive purposes.


I personally like Ranger/Shadowdancer.

Also, Ive noticed going heavier on STR and lighter on DEX (perhaps 17 and 14 respectively) helps a lot. Get a polearm, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Reflexes and Power Attack. Armor spikes and spiked gauntlet as back up, of course.

Use a wand of longstrider to zip around, Cure Light wounds on yourself, Barksin on whoever you want, Howl, Instant Enemy, etc... all the fun ranger spells/wands/scrolls at your fingertips.

With your increased speed and reach, no melee opponent will be likely to ever catch up with your spring attacking shenanigans, and you can still hit quite hard.

IF for some reason you cannot HiPS spring attacky-ness, you can still do well as a second line melee character: much better than a rogue/shadowdancer by far.

Grand Lodge

What about Heretic Inquisitor/Shadowdancer?

Choose Irori, nab the Wisdom of the Flesh trait for x2 wisdom to stealth, get Improved Unarmed Strike for free, move up to Nightmare fist.


AdAstraGames wrote:

Here's the character's journal. I'm currently editing the next bunch of entries to put up.

Here's the character's build.

Showing up at PFS games with a Paladin wearing Pharasma's spiral on her cloakpin, and a giggling Shadow hiding under her cloak and chattering in Celestial is entertaining.

Other ways to justify the Shadow is that it's a spirit bound to the Paladin for redemptive purposes.

That is ... um, an interesting way to bring the shadow into the game.


More interesting than the usual "*poof*, I have a familiar now!* or "*poof, I met a new animal companion in the woods!" mechanism. It also has a nice moral quandary built into it...

If you found the journal an enjoyable read, I'm currently writing up her last few missions. Because of Windows Update I lost my in-game notes for the two parts of Heresy of Man she was in, and am reconstructing by reading the modules - the two scenarios she did afterwards have been written, so there will be about four more entries in a day or so.


I'll take a look at it, thanks.

I am curious as to what the save DC is for your Shadow Conjuration (and Evocation eventually) abilities.

It is based on class level of the Shadowdancer right? Not level of the spell? In the long run it will make these abilities more useful I think.


As I currently understand it, the DC for a spell like ability that duplicates a spell is equal to the DC of the spell it duplicates. Only the caster level increases. Note that it says the caster level increases at the shadowdancer's level, not the characters's levels in Shadowdancer.


You aren't kidding about the cost of improving AC. 20K for a set of +1 Ghost Touch Mithral Kikko armor. (no armor check penalty means non-proficiency is not an issue)

How does encumbrance factor in? With no Strength score.

-j


howsabout a ghost touch crossbow for your container? presumably you can load it with normal wooden bolts, who's to say you couldn't tie a message around the loaded bolt? or really anything else that you could tie to a crossbow bolt, maybe glue a potion on there?

if you can tie a pocket handkerchief onto the loaded bolt of a ghost touch crossbow, then your shadow can take a portable hole through walls. How's that for a container?

Dark Archive

there stealth check is through the roof. Use it. Archers can't shoot it if they don't see it. Move them in to pozition. Then next round attack then move them into full cover. Which means they can't be targeted. Have them attack every other round. The enemy will eventually waste full rounds of attack to just to ready an attack against them. All the while the party is abusing them.


AdAstraGames wrote:

The idea of spending 21,000 GP on a Wand of Extended Displacement is very very tempting.

You didn't mention PFS in your initial post but you did later. Note that meta-magiced magic items aren't purchasable unless they show up on a chronicle sheet.


Titania, the Summer Queen wrote:


there stealth check is through the roof. Use it. Archers can't shoot it if they don't see it. Move them in to pozition. Then next round attack then move them into full cover. Which means they can't be targeted. Have them attack every other round. The enemy will eventually waste full rounds of attack to just to ready an attack against them. All the while the party is abusing them.

If you use the Silent Image ability to simulate the effects of a fog cloud and block line of sight, it foils most ranged attackers.

It is arguably also hard to "interact" with a fog cloud enough to justify a disbelieve roll.

-j


As a lvl 2 sd now I like these ideas. I'm mythic so it's gonna have more hps but I'm worried its gonna go splat.


Pirate Rob wrote:
AdAstraGames wrote:

The idea of spending 21,000 GP on a Wand of Extended Displacement is very very tempting.

You didn't mention PFS in your initial post but you did later. Note that meta-magiced magic items aren't purchasable unless they show up on a chronicle sheet.

Yeah. I found that out and just bought the wand of Blur. It's proven very handy. So has a friend who casts Stoneskin on Astrid.

Ugly trick: Cast Silence on your Shadow and send her/him/it in to play patty-cake with spellcasters. Even more ugly - do this after casting Stoneskin on it.


I'm confused by what items the shadow can have on and still go through walls. Or whether he can use items that aren't ghost touch.

Or even how an incorporeal thing can have spells cast on him.


To answer Jason Wu's question:

I assume that the Shadow can carry any one handed item, but with a strength of "--", it is an undefined area of the rules.

To answer sunbeam's question:

Your Shadow can move through walls when carrying or wearing ghost-touch items.

Your Shadow has an INT of 6, so can have an Ioun stone attuned to them - however, that Ioun stone will not follow them through a wall - the shadow will walk through the wall, the Ioun stone will stay on the original side and fall to the ground.

Your Shadow, if they have a ghost-touch Amulet of Mighty Fists, can pick up non-ghost-touch items. They can use them, provided they can be used while carried, but cannot wear an item that requires a slot. Your Shadow can use your backup +1 Morningstar if it has the Amulet of Ghost-touch fists. It can't wear your old Belt of Mighty Strength, or your Ring of Regeneration.

Anything your Shadow is carrying or is attuned to that isn't ghost touch won't follow them through the wall. I generally assume the Shadow's encumbrance is "one single-handed item at a time." with this, but it is, to the best of my knowledge, an undefined area of the rules. Try not to use your Shadow as a floating disk spell and your GM will probably be happy with it.

Your Shadow can be targeted by any spell that could affect another creature; it cannot be the target of spells that have a range of "Personal" unless you do tricks with casting the spell into an Ioun stone and then attuning the Ioun stone to the Shadow.

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