Thoughness (mythic) says this: "Toughness provides you twice as many hit
points".

What does it double? The usual hp you get from toughness or those you get from HD+Con(+path)?

it doubles the benefit of the non-mythic toughness feat.

Umm...why would you think anything other then the benefit of toughness is doubled on reading that?!? I mean even ignoring all those mythic feats that double the benefit of the normal version, where do you even remotely conclude that the wording on toughness mythic doubles ALL your HP other then wishful thinking?

Because I am dumb or because it not completely clear that it referes Toughness and not Toughness. I see potential issues with players who aren't that meticulus with text.

I removed a post and the replies to it. Don't be a jerk. Flag it and move on.

My players also thought it was vague and were willing to argue that Toughness (i.e. Mythic Toughness) doubled your overall hit points.

I think the overall flaw with the mythic feat descriptions is that while they're intended to modify the prerequisite feat in some manner, it never actually says so, and if you read them as standalone feats the interpretation can be quite different.

Look at the discussions of Power Attack (mythic) for another example of this.

You're right in raising your concerns, but as far as a "Mythic" feat is concerned, this is beyond broken, even for a Mythic power.

Taking it into an example context based purely on the RAW of the feat, here's a question: So now instead of ~100 hit points at 8th level, I have ~200 hit points at 8th level?

RAI, I am sure the Mythic feats are supposed to merely "enhance" the bonuses granted from their standard counterparts. RAW, it most certainly doesn't explain it that way.

The feat could be phrased a little better, it's true. But I think that it does clearly set forth how it works. The feat reads as follows:

Toughness (Mythic)

You have legendary resilience and durability.
Prerequisite: Toughness, 1st mythic tier.
Benefit: Toughness provides you twice as many hit points. In addition, when you are below 0 hit points you gain DR 10/epic. This DR stacks with any other DR/epic you might possess.

The confusion arises, I think, in the fact that the base feat and the mythic feat have similar names. The base feat is called Toughness, while the mythic feat is called Toughness (Mythic).

The feat description for Toughness (Mythic) states that "Toughness provides you twice as many hit points." In other words, while Toughness (the base feat) would normally provide +1 HP/level (effectively), now it would provide twice that, i.e., +2 HP/level.

Seems like it gets stronger the more times you take toughness for your character then... I kind of like it!

Seems like it gets stronger the more times you take toughness for your character then... I kind of like it!

You can only take Toughness one time though.

Oh gawd if this reaches a second page I am not returning to these forums.

That's what I get for mixing systems in my head, you used to be able to take toughness multiple times, in one of the iterations.

Oh gawd if this reaches a second page I am not returning to these forums.

Challenge accepted! ;-P

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

Oh gawd if this reaches a second page I am not returning to these forums.

Challenge accepted! ;-P

I think the Paladin alignment restriction is stupid, monks and rogues are OP, and Wizards need a buff.

That should do it.

Ah come one, you need to hook it a little more.
Like the fact that even mythic rogues are totally underpowered, fragile and next to useless compared to the others, especially with the trickster archetype^^

Mythic toughness refers clearly to the boni bestowed by the normal toughness feat, since it also is a prerequ. At level one you would already get +6 hp which is quite a lot.

yeah but at level 3 it's just another copy of toughness, which isn't very mythic...

now if it allowed you to also get more copies of toughness....

Well it still gives you +2 hp per level then instead of +1, which isn´t bad either.

yeah, but it's essentially just taking toughness a second time.

If you start letting them take more toughness, then you get some truely mythic toughness.

a second toughness feat would be like having four toughness (two toughness + the effect of this mythic feat)

of course you're blowing up your feats on extra hp, but it gets pretty awesome. of course you could end up with a fighter who say picked up toughness 5 times and this ability using 6 feats total...

for at lvl 10 +100hp.