Due to some books I've been reading, my love of L5R, some of recent characters I've played (a Dhampir Rogue (Charlatan), a Gnome Enchanter, and a Half-Elf Bard), and a very social/city based game I plan on running at some point, I've been considering making a homebrewed Courtier base class. Essentially the idea would be something along the lines of the Aristocrat NPC class made into something a PC could play. I realize this can essentially be done with a variety of other classes (see my previous statement about characters I've recently played) but I'm looking to make something different. I don't want this to be a spellcaster and though sneak attack is fitting for certain notable courtiers I'm looking for something else.
Now the basic idea I have so far is a class with a 3/4ths BAB progression, a d8 hit die, poor fort. and ref. saves and a good will save. As for class skills, I was thinking Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (either all of them or just Local and Nobility), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Use Magic Device. Those are debateable but with a quick run through of all the skills (and looking over the Aristocrat) that's what I came up with. Lastly, they would likely have either 6 + Int mod. or 8 + Int mod. skill ranks per level.
EDIT: I should probably also mention I was thinking they could be of any alignment and would likely have the same proficiencies as a Bard, though that is also debateable.
Then as far as abilities go they'd likely get various things to help with social skills (such as the ability to increase the attitude of someone by 3 steps with a diplomacy check instead of 2 steps, free leadership at 7th level, etc.). Maybe something akin to Rogue Talents/Ninja Tricks/Alchemist Discoveries every even level.
My main issue is coming up with a notable ability such as Bardic Music, Sneak Attack, Smite Evil, Challenge, Judgement, Bombs, etc. as all of the abilities I can come up with could easily just be made into Rogue Talents. If anyone has any ideas I'd greatly appreciate it.
While I personally never liked the above class ability wise, I believe you might be able to use it as a jumping point. You also should look at Super Genius Games' Anarchistic Adventures: the Luminary for ideas.
A character class should be more than just a profession. I think the current rules have enough classes that you don't need to invent one for a very narrow focus. Making a character class for a specific campaign is usually a bad idea because it gives all the advantages to the new class. If that is the case why would anyone want to play anything else? You will probably end up with a whole party of this class which means all the characters are going to be the same.
A character class should be more than just a profession. I think the current rules have enough classes that you don't need to invent one for a very narrow focus. Making a character class for a specific campaign is usually a bad idea because it gives all the advantages to the new class. If that is the case why would anyone want to play anything else? You will probably end up with a whole party of this class which means all the characters are going to be the same.
You make valid points Stranger, however Pathfinder is a Role Playing game; I personally feel that their can never be enough classes, even some can be overly specialized. Besides, experience has taught me most players stick to what they know. Amongst all my homebrew creations, only two things I ever presented have been used. I bet the players will stick to more established classes.
OmNomNid: I looked over the Voyageur, it's interesting but I've still got my work cut out for me.
A character class should be more than just a profession. I think the current rules have enough classes that you don't need to invent one for a very narrow focus. Making a character class for a specific campaign is usually a bad idea because it gives all the advantages to the new class. If that is the case why would anyone want to play anything else? You will probably end up with a whole party of this class which means all the characters are going to be the same.
Though I understand what you mean Mysterious Stranger, the campaign wouldn't be solely based on the politics of court so a courtier wouldn't have any more advantage than another class. As OmNomNib said, a lot of players stick to the things they see in books. I also know that only certain people like to play social based classes and most players are more concerned about what they can do in combat.
I'd also, more than likely use the class in other campaigns, especially for aristocracy type NPC's that I wanted to have actual class levels but not cast spells or have the ability to sneak attack. Essentially what I'm going for is a social Rogue type class and believe me, I'd make a homebrewed archetype but, the issue is, if you get rid of Sneak Attack, Trap Finding, Trap Sense, Evasion, and Uncanny Dodge, you don't really have a Rogue anymore.
What I'm trying to build is a social type class that could also help out some in combat if the PC wanted it to be able to. There was a Courtier base class in the Oriental Adventures version of 3.0 that got things but unfortunately I don't own the book and the only thing that I know it gets is leadership for free at some point.
I'm telling ya, look at the Luminary.
Dragonlance had a class called the noble which was slightly meh but that had an ability called contacts if i remember rightly. Hope it helps.
Create a rogue archetype instead of a new base class. Swap out trap finding from the same bonus to Diplomacy and sense motive. Swap out the trap sense for the ability to increase the attitude of someone with diplomacy. As far and sneak attack that should be kept. Can't have a backstabbing Courtier without sneak attack. Or maybe change that to poison use. Rogue has almost any skill on the list except maybe knowledge nobility so swap that with dungeoneering.
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how about a 'pool' which could be used to interact with the social spheres of your game.
some examples off the top of my head:
Contact Pool:
spend 1 point to pull a favor from someone in your sphere. this could be monetary or material, or some sort of service rendered.
spend 1 point to gain a temporary Cohort as per Leadership feat.
spend 1 point to alter an NPC's attitude one step.
Secular Authority Pool:
spend 1 point to Judge someone of a lower station. local police have +1 priority to bring in someone under your Judgement.
spend 1 point to pardon someone from Judgement. this could even be run as an opposed level check if the initial person is of equal or higher station/level.
spend 1 point to gain temporary Followers as per Leadership. these deputies are on special assignment.
Wealth Pool:
spend 1 point to acquire 100 gp per level.
spend 1 point to increase the availability of items in a certain marketplace.
spend 1 point to borrow a powerful magic item from it's curator.
how about a 'pool' which could be used to interact with the social spheres of your game.
some examples off the top of my head:
Contact Pool:
spend 1 point to pull a favor from someone in your sphere. this could be monetary or material, or some sort of service rendered.
spend 1 point to gain a temporary Cohort as per Leadership feat.
spend 1 point to alter an NPC's attitude one step.Secular Authority Pool:
spend 1 point to Judge someone of a lower station. local police have +1 priority to bring in someone under your Judgement.
spend 1 point to pardon someone from Judgement. this could even be run as an opposed level check if the initial person is of equal or higher station/level.
spend 1 point to gain temporary Followers as per Leadership. these deputies are on special assignment.Wealth Pool:
spend 1 point to acquire 100 gp per level.
spend 1 point to increase the availability of items in a certain marketplace.
spend 1 point to borrow a powerful magic item from it's curator.
I like this idea, I'll probably tweak it some and just make it one pool of points (similar to a Magus or Monk) that the Courtier can use to do different things like add a bonus to certain skill checks, aquire a cohort for a short amount of time, and various other things.
Ok, based on the pool idea I've got some basic special ability ideas:
Influence Pool: At 1st level, a courtier gains a pool of points representing her influence. The number of points in a courtier's influence pool is equal to 1/2 her courtier level + her Charisma modifier. As long as she has at least 1 point in her influence pool, when she uses the Diplomacy skill to shift a creature's attitude, the targets attitude may shift up to three steps higher rather than just two.
By spending 1 point from her influence pool, as a swift action, a courtier can give herself a +2 insight bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate checks for 1 round. In addition, as an immediate action, she can spend 1 point from her influence pool to give herself a +2 bonus on a save against a spell or effect that would detect her lies or force her to speak the truth.
The influence pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest; these hours do not need to be consecutive.
Great Leader: At 3rd (or maybe 5th) level a courtier is able to use her influence to rally like minded individuals to her cause. If the courtier is in an area with individuals of the same alignment as hers, she may spend a point from her influence pool to gain a cohort, as per the leadership feat, for one hour. She may spend additional influence points to add an hour of service to this duration, but the duration may not be longer than a number of hours equal to her courtier level. A courtier may only gain one cohort in this way.
If the courtier ever gains the leadership feat, she receives a +2 bonus to her leadership score and her cohort may be one experience level behind her instead of two. Regardless of whether or not the courtier has the leadership feat, cohorts gained by spending influence points can only be up to 2 levels behind the courtier.
So I'm not sure if anybody is still interested in this but I now have a basic layout for this that I'm still working on and adding abilities too. Suggestions and constructive criticism would be helpful.
I don't mean to beat a dead horse but does anyone have any insight on this?
Wouldn't this be covered under the Aristocrat NPC class with wise feat selections?
I think that it's a very well thought out class with many creative considerations. It would be perfect for an intrigue-based game, but may not be very exciting for a hack and slash game.
I would play it in either though.
The thing about Aristocrats is their lack of class abilities. The main reason I've created this is that I want a core class to use for NPC's in a game that are able to manipulate people through their words and actions without receiving a class ability they don't have a use for (sneak attack). For instance, I have an old aged NPC Queen sitting around with a 7 strength, 10 dexterity, and 9 constitution, however, she has a 16 intelligence, 14 wisdom, and 24 charisma (before any magic items). So she's not going to be stabbing people in the liver very often but will likely be pulling the strings in the city.
I realize it's not a very hack and slash kind of class but that's why I was looking for suggestions or insight. An idea I had to give it better offensive abilities was removing some abilities and replacing them with something like +1 on attack and damage rolls with poisoned weapons or against enemies that have been successfully feinted against and then have it stack with their levels. It seems Rogue-esque but the class is meant to be more of a talker than anything else.
Rogue is the thing that's usually used for this. They just don't use sneak attack.
Rite Publishing's Way of the Samurai has some possibilities with the Kuge (samurai archetype) kind of a skill monkey noble with slower progression of samurai features (Cheapy, up above, helped design this), as well as a prestige class, Bugyo, which is an aristocrat with awesome diplomatic powers, some samurai features.
While nothing like L5R, the Kaidan campaign setting of Japanese horror is designed with an authentic look at Japanese feudal culture and folklore with an emphasis on ghost story tradition. It uses it's own Honor mechanic (much simpler than L5R's version). Unlike Rokugan, Kaidan is more like Japan, being an archipelago of islands.
There are archetypes for gunslinger, paladin, ranger, wizard and 4 samurai archetypes - all inspired by Japanese history and folklore.
Both the kuge samurai archetype and bugyo prestige class were built with 'courtier' in mind.
Might be worth checking out - and only $2 for the Cyber Monday sale.
I may have to check out the Samurai archetypes. I believe I've seen them before but didn't look super closely. I mainly used things from the L5R courtier and the Star Wars and Dragonlance noble. I also pulled from the Iron Kingdoms thief.