For reference, you could treat it as if the caltrops are Diminutive-sized creatures taking 10 on a stealth check (perception DC 22 to notice them.) If the person making the check is distracted (which they will be during combat) it's another +5 for DC 27.
For reference, you could treat it as if the caltrops are Diminutive-sized creatures taking 10 on a stealth check (perception DC 22 to notice them.) If the person making the check is distracted (which they will be during combat) it's another +5 for DC 27.
I like where you are goin but takeing 10 no way. It just sitting there. It take any thing that require some type of thought. It takes nothing or 0. Or if some one hid then use there stealth roll instead.
I miss place my keys they get there size and distance, +5 for wife and kids yelling "lets go" maybe +5 more being the same color as the coffe table. But thas about it.
I disagree... what are you doing when you use the Stealth skill besides "just sitting there"? It's not Disguise, it's Stealth, it's all about being quiet (which caltrops are,) and moving in a way that's hard to notice (not a problem for caltrops.)
How would a caltrop-sized creature be any harder to notice than a caltrop if they're not using any sort of disguise? If anything, they'd be easier to notice because they move and make noise.
Well, it's a DC 0 to see something that isn't hiding.
So unless the broken glass is hiding, it'd start at Dc 0.
Also, tiny is about 1 ft'. I'm not sure how to scale down, but I don't know if the broken glass would really be classified (glassified 8)) as a Diminutive...
Well, it's a DC 0 to see something that isn't hiding.
So unless the broken glass is hiding, it'd start at Dc 0.
Also, tiny is about 1 ft'. I'm not sure how to scale down, but I don't know if the broken glass would really be classified (glassified 8)) as a Diminutive...
DC 0 is seeing a human-sized (medium) creature that's making no attempt to hide.
If a medium creature is trying to be stealthy, assuming they have no bonus they can take 10, and seeing them is now a DC 10. I would argue that a creature using stealth is, essentially, trying to pretend they are an inanimate object, so objects can be assumed to be taking 10 on stealth. (You could argue that this would imply a human-sized cabinet would take a DC 10 perception check to notice, which I admit is a bit silly, but I don't think there's any argument that you will notice a human-sized object just as easily as a human-sized creature, because one is moving and making noise while the other is not. Maybe DC 5 is a good compromise.)
As for size scaling, I believe the rule of thumb is that each size category is a doubling/halving of size in a one dimension. This is why large creatures take up a 10x10 compared to medium creatures that take up a 5x5, and explains the rule on how each increase in size category octuples the creature's weight. So we can infer that a medium creature is ~5 ft., a small creature is ~2.5 feet, a tiny creature is ~1 foot, and a diminutive creature is ~6 inches. A caltrop is maybe more like 3 inches, but let's be conservative and call it diminutive instead of fine. Being diminutive gives it a +12 on Stealth.
So, I'd say a a DC 17 is fair when they're not distracted, DC 22 if they're distracted.
The main point being, a living, breathing, moving creature is certainly easier to notice than an inanimate object. It makes no sense to say a caltrop is DC 12 to notice, but an animated caltrop taking 10 on Stealth (which looks exactly like a caltrop) is DC 22.
Caltrops are pretty obvious... You actually make people roll to see something sitting out in plain view?
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Caltrops are pretty obvious... You actually make people roll to see something sitting out in plain view?
... says someone who's obviously never stepped on a Lego.
Regular caltrops don't really require a perception roll to spot (I'm surprised at this though.)
Caltrops are pretty obvious... You actually make people roll to see something sitting out in plain view?... says someone who's obviously never stepped on a Lego.
No... the worst I did was break my toe on a computer case my boyfriend left in the middle of the bedroom floor. In my defense it was dark and I was trying not to wake him. Although my stealth check was certainly ruined when I tumbled to the floor screaming.
Still you are talking about overlooking one lego... not a floor covered in them. That would be really hard to miss. Unless you have the lights off... but without light it's hard to see anything.
I would argue that a creature using stealth is, essentially, trying to pretend they are an inanimate object, so objects can be assumed to be taking 10 on stealth.
a creature using stealth is trying NOT TO BE SEEN. that is why stealth requires cover or concealment to use at all, because you are trying to hide in a shadow or behind a wall. the idea that an object can actively use a skill to hide itself is ludicrous.
at best give caltrops a DC 0 check to notice, modified by their size +12, if you feel the need to have people make spot checks. but characters in combat are actively looking for dangerous things that can hurt them, and caltrops qualify as that. so unless the person who put the caltrops there in the first place took active steps to hide their presence, they will just be seen.
You can also use stealth if you're not being observed, or if the people you're hiding from are distracted. I don't know about you, but if there's a bunch of archers firing arrows at me, I wouldn't be looking at the floor.
It will depend on what the floor is - if it's stone or gravel, I think caltrops would be hard to spot. If it's a finished floor, not so much.
I just don't see how small objects on the ground would be 100% as easy to notice as a grunting orc.
If you think glass can hide what about sword at your wast? Or potion in my bag ? Realy I give you and color but not active thought from a piece of glass. Do you make Perception check pull you weapon it is the same idea.
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For the OP, a field of broken glass is pretty darn obvious. I'd say Perception DC 0, with maybe the +5 penalty for distraction in combat. A field of broken glass on a stone floor is about as hidden as a rug.
For the more general question of caltrops, they would still be pretty easy to see. Medieval caltrops are not pointy little jacks, they are roughly the size of a tennis ball. To be effective there have to be a lot of the scattered around too. They work not because they are hidden, but because your opponet has to go through them anyway and doesn't have time to do so carefully.
A single caltrop might be relatively easy to overlook on a similar-colored floor, but a bunch is rarely hard to spot. You should set their size modifier to the Perception DC based on the size of the group, not on the size of individual caltrops. So the group is effectively Medium, and DC 0. If the observer is distracted, particularly by being attacked or by focusing intently on things near eye level or above, they might get a +5 DC increase for distracted observers. If the caltrops blend in for some reason, you could give a circumstance bonus to the DC of +2 to +10 depending on how good the likeness is.