Druid Wild Shape / Beast shape - am I getting this right?


Rules Questions


Hi everyone,
I'm running a game with a wildshape-happy druid, and I wanted to make sure I'm getting this right.

Druid's Wild Shape emulates Beast Shape series of spells ( http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beast-shape ), as I understand it. Beast Shape suggests that caster retains his original stats, adjusting Str/Dex and Natural Armor based on size, and adding various special senses, movement modes, special attacks etc based on the animal's own abilities. Here are couple of the things I'm unclear on:

1) Movement:

If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet (Beast Shape I); If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet (Beast Shape II) etc

Does that mean that, if Beast whose shape is being taken has, i.e. climb or fly mode -at any speed- you get it at 30' at Beast Shape I / 60' at Beast Shape II, or is that "up to 30/60" - so a Beast Shape II into a creature with Climb 20' wouldn't give caster Climb 60' ? More simply put, which movement stat block takes precedence, animal's own or Beast Shape spell's? My take is that Druid would get the movement mode -up to- base form's speed, but not above it?

2) Attacks:

If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: <snip> grab, pounce, and trip. (Beast Shape II)

This part seems clear to me - if animal form has a special attack, and Beast Shape spell lists it, you get it. However, Beast Shape doesn't say anything about actual natural attacks; am I right in assuming shapeshifter gets the standard array of natural attacks of the form he attains? I.e. Would a Druid using Wild Shape (Beast Shape II) to turn into a Lion, in addition to gaining Pounce, gain Bite (1D8) and 2 Claws (1D4) ?

In addition, related to Wild Shape : If a Druid can shapeshift into a beast with certain abilities, do those count as qualifier for certain monster feats? Here's my read on it:

Druid can shapeshift into a beast with Natural Armor. That qualifies Druid to take Improved Natural Armor, though the feat is only active when Druid is wildshaped into a creature with natural armor score.

Examples of feats impacted by above: Flyby Attack, Hover, Imp. Natural Armor, Imp. Natural Attack, Multiattack...

Thanks in advance for all the input and advice!


1) Your movement conforms to that of the form's movement up to the spell's speed limit. So Beast Shape 1 into a creature with 50' fly (good) speed gets 30' fly (average). The same shape once you qualify for Beast Shape II gets you the full 50' fly (good).

2) You get all of the listed natural attacks and do the listed dice amount of damage, but be careful that you'll need to recalculate the bonus damage as your strength score is not the same as the creature's. For example, a Dire Lion's bite is 1d8 + 7 damage but that's with a 25 strength. If in your transformed state you only have an 18 strength, your bite does 1d8 + 4.

Feats - I've ruled yes, once a druid can assume a form with an ability, he counts as having it for feat prerequisites, though of course the feat only functions when he has the necessary ability (such as Improved Natural Weapon (claws) only works when he actually has claws). I never looked into rules to this extent though, as it just made sense to me to rule this way.


If you are looking for the rules on gaining natural weapons they are covered in the Transmutation School.

Transmutation wrote:
In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.


Another question: When looking for animals to Wild Shape into, are Dire animals also options, or does Beast Shape allow only "base" forms?

Shadow Lodge

If it has its own entry in the Bestiary, such as a Dire Bear, it's fair game. No templates, though, so if a "Dire" template is introduced you can't just apply that to anything you want.

Polymorph Rules wrote:
Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
MurphysParadox wrote:
1) Your movement conforms to that of the form's movement up to the spell's speed limit. So Beast Shape 1 into a creature with 50' fly (good) speed gets 30' fly (average). The same shape once you qualify for Beast Shape II gets you the full 50' fly (good).

And to clarify, using Beast Shape II to turn into a creature with 30' fly (average) won't give you 50' fly (good).


I don't have the books in front of me, but beast shape 1 & 2 allow you to wild shape into any creature of the Animal type. Beast shape 3 will allow S&M magical beasts. So, as long as the creature is an "animal" and eventually a "magical beast" of the correct size, then you can wild shape into it.
It's been a while since I've played a Druid, so things may have changed since then, but templates aren't allowed for the creatures you've shaped into. So you can't do a Young Allosaur to reduce it's size so you can beast shape into it.


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Andro wrote:
My take is that Druid would get the movement mode -up to- base form's speed, but not above it?

Correct. The spell does not entitle you to move faster than a natural example of the beast you've become. The movement has to be listed in both the spell and the animal's stat block, and you get the slower speed of the two.

Andro wrote:
Am I right in assuming shapeshifter gets the standard array of natural attacks of the form he attains? I.e. Would a Druid using Wild Shape (Beast Shape II) to turn into a Lion, in addition to gaining Pounce, gain Bite (1D8) and 2 Claws (1D4) ?

Yes. When becoming a lion, you do in fact grow teeth and claws, and therefore have the attacks.

Check out the guide to wild shape that I wrote.


Awesome stuff, Tinalles, thanks a lot!


Sorry, no magical beast for the druid. Nowhere does it say so in the druid entry - only creatures of the animal, elemental and plant type are possible.

Beast shape defines the upper limits of special abilities and movement rates.

There is no official ruling about the monster feats you mention, Andro, but I remember a post by SKR? JB? JJ? where he talks about this issue. His conclusion was that the feat only kicks in when the prereq is met and that if the player is fine with having the benefit of a (precious) feat apply only part time, he'd allow it - check with your GM.

Also, I'd talk to your GM about being able to talk while in elemental form - makes life a lot (ch)easier for you if you can talk to your fellow PCs in Auran, Ignan etc.

Ruyan.


RuyanVe wrote:

Sorry, no magical beast for the druid. Nowhere does it say so in the druid entry - only creatures of the animal, elemental and plant type are possible.

Beast shape defines the upper limits of special abilities and movement rates.

There is no official ruling about the monster feats you mention, Andro, but I remember a post by SKR? JB? JJ? where he talks about this issue. His conclusion was that the feat only kicks in when the prereq is met and that if the player is fine with having the benefit of a (precious) feat apply only part time, he'd allow it - check with your GM.

Also, I'd talk to your GM about being able to talk while in elemental form - makes life a lot (ch)easier for you if you can talk to your fellow PCs in Auran, Ignan etc.

Ruyan.

Perhaps this was changed in an errata posted after this, but you most assuredly do get magical beasts at 8th level, as per the beast shape spell.


Nope.

PRD wrote:


When taking the form of animals, a druid's wild shape now functions as beast shape III.

You only get animals, elementals, and plants.

Though some specific archetypes get giants, oozes, etc.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

The lack of magical beast forms is one of the reason Wild Shape tops out at Beast Shape 3 rather than Beast Shape 4, which includes Tiny and Large Magical Beasts.

Keep in mind as well that the same form might gain some abilities at Beast Shape I, others at Beast Shape II, some at Beast Shape III or may not gain an ability at all because it is not listed under the spell. For example look at great cats, don't get pounce til BS II and don't get rake til BS III.

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