...Been looking around at some old threads regarding the use of Actual Weapons as improvised weapons. Sadly, my search-fu is weak, and I've decided to ask here for a quicker answer.
When using a Masterwork and Magic weapons (or even ammunition) with an enhancement bonus, does such a bonus apply when using the weapon as an Improvised Weapon (such as by a Monk of the Empty Hand)?
Are there official statements or RAW to support either argument?
I'd if you treat normal weapons as improvised as the monk of the empty hand does then it should apply.
If it is ammo: I don't know
If it is nothing of the above: it can't have an enhancement bonus as it has to be a weapon to be enchented as such.
If, for example you try to throw your longsword with has no range increment and as such is no ranged weapon I'd treat it as an improvised ranged weapon. But I'd let the enhancement bonus apply because the magic will still try to make the weapon hit better.
But I can't cite any rules to back that opinion up.
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Improvised weapons are explicitly things that are not normally weapons.
If the MotEH wants to use an enchanted weapon (or even a normal weapon, which the archetype allows) as an improvised weapon, he does not use that weapon's normal rules.
The weapon is treated as an object of similar size and given different damage criteria. Specifically, it will usually do the same damage as a club and large objects can be used as a double weapon like a quarterstaff can be wielded.
Because it does not use the weapon's damage, you do not get any enhancement bonuses or special qualities or effects of that weapon.
Are there official statements or RAW to support either argument?
In a word: no.
...Been looking around at some old threads regarding the use of Actual Weapons as improvised weapons. Sadly, my search-fu is weak, and I've decided to ask here for a quicker answer.When using a Masterwork and Magic weapons (or even ammunition) with an enhancement bonus, does such a bonus apply when using the weapon as an Improvised Weapon (such as by a Monk of the Empty Hand)?
Are there official statements or RAW to support either argument?
An improvised weapon is any object that is not being used in its intended way as a weapon. For example, slapping someone with a chair, using a longspear or 10 ft. pole as a beat-stick, or trying to kill someone with a coffee mug.
Now to my knowledge, a weapon's enhancement bonus does not go away merely because you are wielding the weapon badly. The enhancement clearly affects the entire weapon (including improving hardness and HP). So about the best way to use improvised weapons is likely a martial with the Catch off Guard feat and a pole-arm (since you could wield the pole-arm as an improvised weapon dealing 1d6 damage in short range).
However, since to enhance a weapon you need it to be masterwork, you are not likely to find a masterwork weapon barstool, or a masterwork weapon coffee mug; so unless you're just using your normal masterwork weapons in exotic ways, getting an enhancement bonus on them would be difficult if you lack the means to add it indirectly (such as casting greater magic weapon on your barstool).
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No, seriously, the arrow is the best improvised weapon.
It can be enchanted(though it is lost after one attack), can be Masterwork, and made of special materials.
Two levels in Ranger will net you Weapon Focus(Arrow), and the Rough and Ready trait will negate penalties.
You can also wield Arrows of varied sizes, such as Large(one-handed), and Huge(two-handed).
From what I've read in other threads, There doesn't seem to be problem with using actual weapons as improvised weapons; It'll just switch around the damage, crit range, crit multiplier, etc. to that of an improvised weapon. Just a change to the statistics. Instead of taking penalties for wielding a weapon how it's supposed to be, you're improvising in its use.
In my head, common sense would imply that if you're trying to wield longsword by carefully gripping its blade, There would be no enhancement bonus applicable to its strikes. But Nothing I've found, by RAW, supports or denounces this.
BlackBloodTroll, You're the reason I'm asking about using arrows as improvised weapons with potential enhancement bonuses. That actually makes a bit more sense to me. Again, though... Can't seem to find anything.
So this is a call out. The question is Not whether you Can use normal weapons as improvised weapons;
The question is Will Enhancement Bonuses Apply.
And, really, it's quite an important question for someone like a Monk of the Empty Hand. Being able to wield practically Anything, and still retain some of its magical properties, would be a fantastic skill.
Maybe common sense would imply that certain properties specific to weapons that deal, say, piercing/slashing damage (vorpal), would be negated, while a simple +1 bonus will still work. Maybe that too is overcome when a MotEH can use an improvised weapon to deal any type of damage.
Because it does not use the weapon's damage, you do not get any enhancement bonuses or special qualities or effects of that weapon.
...I'd like to know if there is anything in the RAW to support that.
It'd be nice to know if there's a difference when it comes to:
- Bonuses from Masterwork Quality
- Ammunition
- Magic Weapon properties and enhancement bonuses
The only thing remotely related that I see is the Bowstaff spell. Not sure whether it hints that it's normally not applicable or is.
So far, the only absolute certainty out there that I see is that special abilities specific to one type of weapon won't be applied if that weapon is used as a different type of weapon... (Vorpal on a two-handed blunt improvised weapon is a no-no.)
Edit: Crossbow bolts. Those are an excellent example. Part of their description is that they can be used as improvised light melee weapons. But it never says if enhancement bonuses are kept.
Edit2: Would ammunition lose their enhancement bonus on the first strike, if the above did apply? Is Ammunition special case of something with an Enhancement Bonus being used as an improvised weapon that retains such bonuses and special qualities?
Except that's explicitly something thought in fencing manuals for armored combat and how the weapon is meant to be used...
In my head, common sense would imply that if you're trying to wield longsword by carefully gripping its blade, There would be no enhancement bonus applicable to its strikes. But Nothing I've found, by RAW, supports or denounces this.
Fine. You win.
I *Throw* the dang thing. Better example? XD
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Well, hell. You got me there. And that probably actually does retain its enhancement bonuses.
Of course, I'm sure you realize the example was an attempt at explaining a way a weapon can be used Not as intended, but instead as an improvised weapon...
Is your argument that no weapon may be used as an improvised weapon, unless you've got something by RAW that says it may be? If so, the main question of the thread is still relevant for someone like the Monk of the Empty Hand... And the former should be argued in another thread.
Edit: It's strange, but you're absolutely right... Throwing a greatsword, for example will not be considered use of an Improvised Weapon. It would probably retain its enhancement bonus, too.
...Hell, that's something to ponder. Similar penalties, but no change to the weapon's damage.