I'm looking at the spell summon flight of eagles. I thought this was a really cool Tolkienesque spell before I looked at the details. Initially I thought it was a travel spell (which would be cool). However it's only a minute per level and it's a 6th level spell.
Note: Giant eagles are CR3, so a wizard would have to be level 11 to use this spell. CR3 creatures used as fighting mounts in an 11th level party is no bueno.
At most this spell would be a useful group getaway spell, but teleport is 5th level.
Am I missing something or does this fall squarely in the "interesting, but not useful" category?
School conjuration (summoning); Level druid 6, ranger 4, sorcerer/wizard 6
CASTING
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S, F (a gold feather worth 100 gp)
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect 1d4+1 summoned creatures
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
DESCRIPTION
You summon 1d4+1 giant eagles to serve as mounts for creatures you designate. The summoned birds do not fight independently, but they willingly carry their riders into battle as if trained for combat.
Probably this part: "The summoned birds do not fight independently, but they willingly carry their riders into battle as if trained for combat."
It's so people can fly around and fight, if need be.
Probably this part: "The summoned birds do not fight independently, but they willingly carry their riders into battle as if trained for combat."
It's so people can fly around and fight, if need be.
CR 3 creatures in a 11th level party fight = Dead conjured birds. Probably anyway.
Personal note. I think it either needs to be a lower level or have an extended duration to be useful. my 2C
For mounted combat the duration is fine. In fact if you are fighting an earthbound foe, it's probably more than fine. If the intention is to be a travel spell, then it's not going to be very useful, but it would still have uses even then. Cast by an eleventh level wizard it could carry the party several miles before ending, assuming a normal eagle's flight speed. That would get the party across the Grand Canyon, any raging river and even over a mountain range in a pinch.
Maybe you should just use the spell 'eagle aerie' - seems like it is exactly what you are looking for (1 hr/level) and is also a level 6 spell! (Unless you're a wizard, of course...)
Phantom Steed? The spell that conjures ONE flying mount. OK...
Basically, I think spell isn´t really that far off ´by the books´,
it´s just that ´the package´ it gives you isn´t really worth all the trouble,
just like some combos of metamagic may not be worthwhile with every spell.
Based on the Eagle Shaman Druid Archetype (APG), to summon 1 giant eagle is a 4th level summon spell, so 5th level for 1d4+1.
Extend spell doubles the duration to 2 rounds/level for a 6th level spell, so this being 6th level for 1 min/level looks more than OK by the books...
It´s just that a Summon spell at that level will outlast MOST combat anyways, and with an extend you´re almost guaranteed to outlast combat duration.
The spell also blows for it´s stated purpose if you happen to roll low and only summon 2 giant eagles.
If it had added a bit more, like the giant eagles gain SR (except vs. you perhaps), that would make it very nice, but probably giving way more than what you should get ´by the books´.
I agree with the person that mentioned Eagle Aerie, ALSO a 6th level spell, but you´re going to get 4-6 eagles instead of 2-5... The difference is that once you enter combat, the duration drops to rounds/level (which as I mentioned, is fine for 99% of all combat at this level, and in those other 1% I doubt giant eagles will last that long anyways)
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Obviously. But that spell can´t ever do the same basic thing, namely provide mounts for multiple characters.
If you can sell me a $10,000 Ferrari, it doesn´t obsolete my $20,000 pick-up truck if I want to haul lots of gear.
But by the standards for Mass spells (+5 levels), Mass Phantom Steed should be a 7th level spell.
Like I said, this spell is certainly legit by the books, it just isn´t that great in practice.
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QUESTION: Why in the hell is Eagle Aeria classed as a ´good´ spell? These aren´t Celestial Eagles we´re talking about here...
(maybe that was the intent, but the spellblock was screwed up?) ....Please FAQ this post.
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It's worth mentioning that Druids and particularly Rangers don't get a lot of general purpose travel spells. They do get air walk but it's one person. This would be more interesting if it were 10m/ level though.
For the sorcerer/ wizard it's clearly not worth the time but I can see it being occasionally useful for druids/ rangers.
QUESTION: Why in the hell is Eagle Aeria classed as a ´good´ spell?
LotR (as pointed out by the OP).
I Pressed FAQ anyway ;)
...Well, for Rangers at least, for Druids (and Summoners) Eagle Aerie seems a better deal since you get more eagles (and it´s a sure thing).
A Druid probably has another option to take care of their own PERSONAL flight, and if you´re worried about the whole party, gambling that you won´t just get 2 giant eagles seems kind of crappy considering it´s a 6th level slot... Even if you have a small party, some eagles can fly as back-up to rescue somebody if another eagle dies.
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...Well, for Rangers at least, for Druids (and Summoners) Eagle Aerie seems a better deal since you get more eagles (and it´s a sure thing).
A Druid probably has another option to take care of their own PERSONAL flight, and if you´re worried about the whole party, gambling that you won´t just get 2 giant eagles seems kind of crappy considering it´s a 6th level slot... Even if you have a small party, some eagles can fly as back-up to rescue somebody if another eagle dies.
Hey I didn't say it was a stellar choice :D
This spell screams ranger. I know that it can be cast by Druids and Wizards but they have other alternatives when considering travel or enhanced battle movement spells. It would not surprise me if the spell was designed with rangers in mind and when they where done they tacked on the other two classes. As a ranger's spell it isn't a bad choice as a druid or wizard spell its usefulness falls off noticeably.
It's worth mentioning that Druids and particularly Rangers don't get a lot of general purpose travel spells. They do get air walk but it's one person. This would be more interesting if it were 10m/ level though.
For the sorcerer/ wizard it's clearly not worth the time but I can see it being occasionally useful for druids/ rangers.
Druids get a one hour/level spell called Eagle Aerie that summons six eagles, though it duration shrinks to rounds if the Eagles get into combat.
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Obviously. But that spell can´t ever do the same basic thing, namely provide mounts for multiple characters.
If you can sell me a $10,000 Ferrari, it doesn´t obsolete my $20,000 pick-up truck if I want to haul lots of gear.
Yes, but high level spell slots are exponentially more valuable than low ones. At level 14, it's crazy to drop a 6th level spell on something a few 3rd level spells could do vastly better anyways.
But it's a bit of a silly tangent anyways--because the summon doesn't improve with level, the only level it COULD be viable is right when you first get it. And... it still isn't. A creature with 15 AC and 26 HP is virtually guaranteed to die in one round, often in one hit, and its saves are not much better. Its attacks have low bonuses and don't go through DR. And it's too short and inconsistent for most noncombat party flight. I really have to stretch to imagine situations for which it's worth a 6th level slot. Or even a 4th level ranger slot!
Obviously. But that spell can´t ever do the same basic thing, namely provide mounts for multiple characters.
If you can sell me a $10,000 Ferrari, it doesn´t obsolete my $20,000 pick-up truck if I want to haul lots of gear.Yes, but high level spell slots are exponentially more valuable than low ones. At level 14, it's crazy to drop a 6th level spell on something a few 3rd level spells could do vastly better anyways.
But it's a bit of a silly tangent anyways--because the summon doesn't improve with level, the only level it COULD be viable is right when you first get it. And... it still isn't. A creature with 15 AC and 26 HP is virtually guaranteed to die in one round, often in one hit, and its saves are not much better. Its attacks have low bonuses and don't go through DR. And it's too short and inconsistent for most noncombat party flight. I really have to stretch to imagine situations for which it's worth a 6th level slot. Or even a 4th level ranger slot!
Well provided it is to be used in combat you do not have time to cast multiple phantom steeds probably. Otherwise I agree, if used as a mass mount spell the random number seems off better to keep it at 6 or 1 per 2 levels, for a long distance travel spell the duration seems off, though it serves fairly well as a budget replacement for mass fly spell, they also could be a little tougher, having them appear with the advanced template adn +1 temp hp per level maybe.
I'd go with advanced template / +1 hp per level and summon 6 eagles rather than a random number to make it a somewhat servicable spell giving them 45 hp each when you first get the spell and slightly better saves, AC and combat ability
Druids get a one hour/level spell called Eagle Aerie that summons six eagles, though it duration shrinks to rounds if the Eagles get into combat.
That's a reasonable spell and worth a high level spell slot.
But it's a bit of a silly tangent anyways--because the summon doesn't improve with level, the only level it COULD be viable is right when you first get it. And... it still isn't. A creature with 15 AC and 26 HP is virtually guaranteed to die in one round, often in one hit, and its saves are not much better. Its attacks have low bonuses and don't go through DR. And it's too short and inconsistent for most noncombat party flight. I really have to stretch to imagine situations for which it's worth a 6th level slot. Or even a 4th level ranger slot!
Also my point, especially given the bolded portion.
The wizard version is of EXTREMELY limited use as to make bothering to memorize it pointless.
Thematically I love it, but mechanically it fails utterly.
Is it a Good spell because Giant Eagles have an alignment of Neutral Good?
Then again the spell I'm looking at is Eagle Aerie where you get one giant eagle per three levels, not a variable amount. Where are you getting this "Flight of Eagles" spell from?
Now I am wondering as well, I can not find it in UC, don't tell me we are debating a 3rd party spell here..
Oh, you guys have got this all wrong...
Just strap some dynamite to those CR3 beasties and send em straight into battle.
Then again the spell I'm looking at is Eagle Aerie where you get one giant eagle per three levels, not a variable amount. Where are you getting this "Flight of Eagles" spell from?
Then again the spell I'm looking at is Eagle Aerie where you get one giant eagle per three levels, not a variable amount. Where are you getting this "Flight of Eagles" spell from?Now I am wondering as well, I can not find it in UC, don't tell me we are debating a 3rd party spell here..
I don't think it's third party. Im using an app, which is normally spot on. However, Having read the conversation I suspect the app has a misprint. I suspect summon a flight of eagles is the supposed to be the same spell as eagle aerie. I'll check my UM book when I get home to verify.
Thank you everyone for your help.
Oh, you guys have got this all wrong...
Just strap some dynamite to those CR3 beasties and send em straight into battle.
Thats what henchmen are for.
The app is called spell book. Should have mentioned that earlier.
I think people are mixing up summon flight of eagles from the Andoran book with eagle aerie from Ultimate Magic.
I think people were comparing the two spells, not confusing them.
I´m still confused why one spell has the good descriptor while the other doesn´t...
(and these aren´t good sub-type creatures, they just have a good alignment)
I guess being ´magical beasts´ ups the ante, but still it should be consistent between them.
BTW, it´s not at all unheard of for amazingly similar abilities to be printed in different products, and one is clearly superior to the other, for example APG vs. Seeker of Secrets´ version of ´switch places with ally´ .
I'm golem enough to admit I was confusing the two. I'm playing a wizard, so the spell that's useful (eagle aerie) is not available to me.
Summon a flight of eagles is the spell I was originally talking about and it's high level combined with short duration make it a nigh-useless spell.
Ah well. Such is life. I'll have to use teleport or mass fly. I really like the flavor of Eagle Aerie, but it's bad mechanics make it not a viable option. Maybe it'll be addressed in errata.
I'm golem enough to admit I was confusing the two. I'm playing a wizard, so the spell that's useful (eagle aerie) is not available to me.
Summon a flight of eagles is the spell I was originally talking about and it's high level combined with short duration make it a nigh-useless spell.
Ah well. Such is life. I'll have to use teleport or mass fly. I really like the flavor of Eagle Aerie, but it's bad mechanics make it not a viable option. Maybe it'll be addressed in errata.
I doubt it, maybe your GM is alright with adjusting the spell a little or allowing eagle aerie with possibly some slight modification. Maybe allowing only 1 eagle per 3 levels and keeping the material component of 'flight of eagles'
I doubt it, maybe your GM is alright with adjusting the spell a little or allowing eagle aerie with possibly some slight modification. Maybe allowing only 1 eagle per 3 levels and keeping the material component of 'flight of eagles'
Perhaps, but it's not worth it to even bring up. As a 15th level Mage I have plenty of good tricks up my sleeve.
