| 5 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata. 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So I decided to make this thread in response to a post I made in the James Jacobs thread.
The language of Unarmed Strikes is a little much. I'm guessing the Developers added in a bunch of clarifications to ensure no monkey business happens with Unarmed Strikes. The problem, they make it very difficult to use Unarmed Strikes.
For example, in every instance in the rules that I can find (except one*), Unarmed Strikes are specifically listed as a separate weapon from Natural Attacks, Natural Weapons, and Manufactured Weapons. Seems simple enough right? They want Unarmed Strikes to be special to, mostly, humanoid creatures.
- Example 1
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat). The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.
Here we see that Unarmed Strikes are specifically exempt from counting as a Natural Weapon, but they are always considered a light weapon. However, just because it's a light weapon, does not make it a Manufactured or Natural Weapon.
- Example 2
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes...
What we see here is Unarmed Strikes being specifically listed as a separate category from Manufactured or Natural Weapons/Attacks.
- Example 3
You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon.
Like above, Unarmed Strikes are included in their own category of weapons.
- Example 4
Universal Monster rules - Natural Attacks lists the Natural Attacks available to Monsters. I also has a special little addendum at the very end of the entry that says:Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See Table: Natural Attacks by Size for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.
So a creature that doesn't have a Natural Attack, has an Unarmed Strike. Which, again, means Unarmed Strikes are not Natural Attacks.
- Example 5
You cast this spell as you strike a creature with a melee weapon, unarmed strike, or natural attack...
Here is a spell example the lists the three weapon categories as separate.
These are just some examples of the rules, but it all adds together to mean that Unarmed Strikes are in their own category of weapons. They aren't Natural Weapons, they aren't Natural Attacks, and they certainly aren't Manufactured Weapons (unless you consider giving birth manufacturing an Unarmed Strike).
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So what exactly is the problem? A lot of spells or abilities refer to enhancing or improving Manufactured or Natural Weapons. Now, a Natural Attack is a Natural Weapon, so it doesn't have to worry. But Unarmed Strikes are specifically excluded from being a Natural Weapon, and they aren't Manufactured Weapons either, or you could use the spell Masterwork Transformation to make them Masterwork.
Some examples are spells like Haste, Firebrand, Protection from Alignment, or Strong Jaw.
Haste grants an extra attack with Manufactured or Natural Weapons of which, Unarmed Strikes are neither. So a character, such as a Monk or Unarmed Fighter doesn't gain an extra attack from using Haste.
Firebrand marks a creature with a flaming rune and allows all of the creatures natural and manufactured weapons inflict 1d6 points of fire damage.
Protection from Alignment specifically disallows Natural Attacks from a creature with a selected creature to make contact with the warded creature. However, since Unarmed Strikes aren't Natural Attacks, that Fiendish creature could choose not claw you, and kick you instead, making an Unarmed Strike which isn't prevented by Protection from Alignment.
Strong Jaw increase the damage dice dealt by a Natural Weapon by two steps. Sucks to be people using Unarmed Strikes.
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Now some people might jump up for joy and say, "Yay! Monks have an advantage! Their Unarmed Strikes count as Manufactured or Natural Weapons!"
Sorry Monk fans. That's included in here too. Keep in mind, I'm a big Monk fan and I frequent all the Monk threads, so I don't like this either.
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
Haste's extra attack does not 'enhance or improve' the Unarmed Strike, therefore, the Monk's Unarmed Strike doesn't count as Manufactured or Natural in this case.
Firebrand allows natural and manufactured attacks to inflict +1d6 fire damage. This is easily an improvement, so the Monk benefits here while no one else does.
Protection from Alignment doesn't enhance or improve, so it doesn't count either. Not that anyone would want it to though.
Strong Jaw specifically uses the word 'enhance' in it's effects, so Monk's benefit. All Hail The Druid/Monk!
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So, I think Unarmed Strikes need a little Errata to allow them to benefit from nearly everything a Natural Attack/Weapon does. There are some exceptions, like the Improved Natural Attack Feat which already specifically excludes Unarmed Strikes from counting, but not many that I can think of off the top of my head.
I think Unarmed Strikes should be listed as a Natural Weapon for purposes of spell and effects that effect Natural Weapons so we don't see things like a Pit Fiend being unable to claw you, but can punch you instead because a punch isn't a Natural Weapon.
*The one exception to the rule that I've found is Align Weapon which says, "You can't cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike." This is the only case I've found where an Unarmed Strike is considered a Natural Weapon. I think this is the exception, because every other instance I've found lists Natural Weapons and Unarmed Strikes as separate.
We could also just use the intention since that's crystal clear.
Also, the argument that haste doesn't work with it is insanely weak. If being able to fight more effectively doesn't count as "enhance or improve", then I have no idea what does.
It does appear there are some confusing issues though.
I don't know, getting an extra attack with a weapon sounds like an "improvement" to me.
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Doesn't Haste also provide a +1 bonus on attack rolls? Couple that with Cheapy's comments and it seems to me that is both an enhancement and improvement.
Until I get the memo from Paizo expressly forbidding me to exclude Unarmed Strikes from Hasted effects I'll still allow it at my table - even if that table is a PFS table.
Given how some errata have been laid down based on finicky wording, I think Tels has a point. Not that he or any reasonable DM is going to say to a monk-player "Sorry, haste doesn't give you an extra attack with your unarmed strike" but because of the way these rulings have come about before.
Besides, as the monk is due some errata, it makes sense to get it all done in one hit.
Unarmed Strikes benefit from the +1 to hit because it affects all attacks. However, the extra attack is granted only to Manufactured or Natural Weapons. This is not enhancing the weapon or improving the weapon, Haste affects the person and allows him to use manufactured or natural weapons better. Unarmed Strikes are neither.
If I were running a PFS game and every venture captain and Paizo employee told me I had to enforce Haste not granting an attack, I'd tell all of them to F*** off.
But there are other abilities, other spells that are affected by Unarmed Strike being different from all other attacks. For instance, the Savage Warrior archetype is all about fighting with Natural Weapons. As it stands, most races have no access to a Natural Weapon, since Unarmed Strikes don't count, so most Races can't even use this archetype.
Granted, I'm betting the designer of this Archetype was basing it off the Weapon Training - Natural group which includes Unarmed Strike and all Natural Weapons, but as written, it only grants it's bonuses on Natural Weapons not the Natural Weapon group. This is a fault, I think, of the language in the game. Unarmed Strike is almost always considered a different kind of weapon from Natural Weapons and Manufactured Weapons. Because of this choice in language, you end up with odd rules, like creatures being unable to use a Bite, Claw, or Wing to hit someone behind a Protection from Alignment spell, but they can punch them instead.
The Horizon Walker Prestige Class has Terrain Dominance. He can select Aligned Plane as one of his Terrains and in doing so, his Manufactured or Natural Weapons count as having the alignment of that plane. So a Horizon Walker with a sword in one had, claws in the other, could attack a creature with claw or sword and overcome DR, but if he kicks, then his kick doesn't because it is neither a Manufacture Weapon, or a Natural Weapon.
The 'ability' of Speed grants an additional attack, if the power is derives from the Amulet of Mighty Fist(s) *an added ability on the main item*
But alot of what was written by the OP, does need some major straighten out. And good job on pointing them out.
I've come to the conclusion that it would be really really nice if the editors would favor clarity over low word count. 90% or more of these arguments would just vanish if we could get unambiguous (and non-conflicting) wording in the rules.
And yes, this is me volunteering to help do exactly that, though I know the offer won't be accepted.