Things you just don't like in your fantasy RPGs


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I see a lot of people complaining about guns in fantasy. Particularily about the guns introduced in pathfinder. Personally, I find dinosaurs far worse. Dinosaurs do not belong in fantasy.

When reading the Eberron sourcebooks the thing that jars me the most (actually the ONLY thing) are those damned dinosaurs. Not the robots. Not the flying ships. Not the "magic is everywhere" thing. The stupid dinosaurs. Kill. Kill.

They make me think of strictly MODERN things and sci-fi and bizarre time travel stuff. Or perhaps I simply remember the 90ies. Dinosaurs don't belong in fantasy.


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But sci-fi is fantasy... >.>


I dunno:
dinos
seem
to be
into
a lot (okay this one's dubious)
of different (totally counts!)
fantasy-type (still totally counts!)
shows

especially (well, this is inspired by them, anyway)
in cartoons (they call it a dino! 3 minutes in)
See? (okay, that's not exactly fantasy...)

But look here! Totally fantasy! With dinos!

Even Batman Beyond has dinosaurs!

Justice league! (hard to argue that it gets much more magical than that!)

But if you want fantasy: how about Final Fantasy!

...

...

Sorry. (I'm totally just kidding with you. I understand your point entirely!) ;)

But your point about taste is well taken. Me? I like most things, but I kind of draw the line (sort of... it's a soft line) at the "unbeatable" things, i.e. something so big that no players could ever "win" at. I don't like that (though I certainly understand why others would!). I think that there certainly should be things out there that would be very difficult or normally impossible to face, but ultimately I think there should always be a chance, no matter how small, of someone (or someones), someday getting large enough to equal (or exceed, depending on the setting) all the things that exist out there.

But I understand that bugs some people, so, you know, to each their own. :)

EDIT: to clarify, I like the idea that, say, ascension is possible. I also like the idea that gods are (if not the most powerful, than certainly one of) the most powerful creatures in existence. Combine these two traits, and you've got a recipe that clashes with, say, the Lovcraftian mythos. I like the idea of punching out Cthulu! Even if it is super-rare and difficult. :)


In game bio breaks.

Somethings are better left off screen.

Greg


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Good Drow, Orcs that are Klingon analogues, Kender, short elves, Scottish Dwarves, half ogre barbarians called Gonad, Palladins that are not lawful good, lawful stupid, Meepo clones, vilians with British accents, Chaotic disruptive, chaotic psycho, chaotic random, lack of lethality, people that rubbish wandering monsters or the Vancian magic system. I could keep going all day.


Drow, any variety


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Katanas that don't do the historiclly accurate 36d6 damagage with a 2-20 x4 crit.

Sovereign Court

white necromancers


Large Underdark-style areas. A hollowed out mountain is okay, a friggin' continent-sized cave with a vast panoply of intelligent races, several metropolises and a complicated trade network not so much.

And I find the themes from HP Lovecraft's work to generally be completely uninteresting, so those are out too.

Resurrections. If you're dead, you're either dead or undead unless you're some Jesus/Rand al'Thor/Gandalf type superhero and saviour.

The Exchange

Ganryu wrote:

I see a lot of people complaining about guns in fantasy. Particularily about the guns introduced in pathfinder. Personally, I find dinosaurs far worse. Dinosaurs do not belong in fantasy.

When reading the Eberron sourcebooks the thing that jars me the most (actually the ONLY thing) are those damned dinosaurs. Not the robots. Not the flying ships. Not the "magic is everywhere" thing. The stupid dinosaurs. Kill. Kill.

They make me think of strictly MODERN things and sci-fi and bizarre time travel stuff. Or perhaps I simply remember the 90ies. Dinosaurs don't belong in fantasy.

Earth Dinos don't belong - but Dino Templates of Fantasy creatures do...

Sovereign Court

yellowdingo wrote:
Ganryu wrote:

I see a lot of people complaining about guns in fantasy. Particularily about the guns introduced in pathfinder. Personally, I find dinosaurs far worse. Dinosaurs do not belong in fantasy.

When reading the Eberron sourcebooks the thing that jars me the most (actually the ONLY thing) are those damned dinosaurs. Not the robots. Not the flying ships. Not the "magic is everywhere" thing. The stupid dinosaurs. Kill. Kill.

They make me think of strictly MODERN things and sci-fi and bizarre time travel stuff. Or perhaps I simply remember the 90ies. Dinosaurs don't belong in fantasy.

Earth Dinos don't belong - but Dino Templates of Fantasy creatures do...

Im a "no dino" card carrying member. That means any type of dino for me.


flintlocks and other firearms
machinery
spaceships
ninja's and samuraïs
bearded dwarven women
tinker gnomes
the idea that a fantasy world is all in the heroe's mind

Silver Crusade

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Comedy races.

Seriously. Dragonlance was a fantastic setting with wonderful things like the Knights of Solamnia, the three colleges of magic and entire armies of dragons battling for the fate of the world. It was wonderful...

...but then it's all spoiled by Kender, Gully Dwarves and Tinker Gnomes.

Comedy races are the Scrappy Doo of game settings. There is no need for them and they suck all the awesomeness out of a setting. They should all die in a fire.


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I disagree with the entire premise of this thread. To me everything has a place under the proper circumstances. Do I want guns in every game, heck no. Same for airships, dinosaurs, comedy, asian weapons...celtic dwarves...whatever.

The thing is that the beauty of Pathfinder lies in the fact that with minimal work your can have a steampunk campaign, or a exclusively Arabic setting, or a light hearted fae enspired romp with Kender riding Dinosaurs into battle. The impetus is on the players and the DM to work within the context of the world you have agreed upon to create a story that is coherent and fun for everyone.

Perhaps some of you would hate guns and Ninjas less if your fellow players showed some restraint and left them on the shelf during your Aurthurain Europe enspired campaign...but that doesnt mean that the entirety of a fantasy RPG should pigeon hole everyone into playing Heavy plate and pointy hat high fantasy.


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I don't like the idea of fantasy armor. That rule people seem to follow where the less armor it covers on a woman, the higher the AC bonus. I can't stand that pic of the Barbarian in the CRB.

I don't like exotic mounts, except in rare cases, such as an elite squadron of eagle riders that only total a few dozen in the entire world. Never really liked riding dogs either. Get a pony!! I had one when I was a kid, they're great!

While I'm okay with guns in fantasy, there is to be no spaceships, no computers, nothing beyond steam-power. Trains are okay, but not cars (maybe the occasional Model T) and only prop-planes, hot air balloons, and blimps for non-magical air travel.


Heh, Lazurin, I don't think that this is saying "these things shouldn't be in PF", I think this is just expressing our opinions and tastes. At least that's how I'm taking it. Otherwise, I'm with you: part of the beauty of PF and Golarion, specifically, is how broad and all-encompassing it is.

Nepherti, I don't think the barbarian iconic is supposed to be wearing any armor. I mean that literally (and there are archetypes to go with this, I believe). I could be wrong, though. Otherwise, yes, the more revealing on a woman = higher AC is something that my wife and I laugh about often in fantasy art as being really silly.


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Lazurin Arborlon wrote:


Perhaps some of you would hate guns and Ninjas less if your fellow players showed some restraint and left them on the shelf during your Aurthurain Europe enspired campaign...but that doesnt mean that the entirety of a fantasy RPG should pigeon hole everyone into playing Heavy plate and pointy hat high fantasy.

The question was : things you just don't like in your fantasy RPG's.

There doesn't have to be a logical reason to this. It is an emotional response. It does not mean what you have in your's is wrong. I, for one, am interested in knowing what bugs you in your RPG.


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Not much. I'm pretty good with finding a place to fit just about anything. Might be heavily reflavored from the standard, but it will be there somewhere, usually.


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Unsponsored Deific Ascension...and by extension Let's Go God Killing stupidity.

Not so much out of authoritarian antipathy - far from it, since stories and fables abound about mortals joining those they once served. However, I'm more annoyed by every Gods-bedamned Kratos wannabe who insists that everything should have a numerical stat so they can try to kill it than I have ever been by Random Good Drow #3249610236507816235.

My campaigns are not devoid of theological conflicts, but there are rules to such things, including avatars slugging it out instead of the Gods themselves, and a general pact of 'open hostility from an outside source will likely unite them all against you' nature. The true way to defeat and usurp a god is to outwit them and prove yourself more worthy of their portfolio...and then get the Multiverse to agree.


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Peavey amplifiers!


I'm not a fan of either dinosaurs or guns in my fantasy rpgs. Or psionics. Or space ships.

Clearly I'm an excessively picky person.


TheAntiElite wrote:

Unsponsored Deific Ascension...and by extension Let's Go God Killing stupidity.

Not so much out of authoritarian antipathy - far from it, since stories and fables abound about mortals joining those they once served. However, I'm more annoyed by every Gods-bedamned Kratos wannabe who insists that everything should have a numerical stat so they can try to kill it than I have ever been by Random Good Drow #3249610236507816235.

My campaigns are not devoid of theological conflicts, but there are rules to such things, including avatars slugging it out instead of the Gods themselves, and a general pact of 'open hostility from an outside source will likely unite them all against you' nature. The true way to defeat and usurp a god is to outwit them and prove yourself more worthy of their portfolio...and then get the Multiverse to agree.

See, to me, I like having their stats so that they can be defeated or even destroyed... but that's not the way to get their portfolio.

Rather, to me their portfolio functions more or less as you say: you've got to prove yourself more worthy of their portfolio than they are (and then get <insert thing> here to agree). That's generally how I run it. The other part of that, is, though, that being able to eliminate the competition (i.e. the current deity) does make that easier. You may never be able to meet the standard and convince the <important group or ideal> that you meet the prereqs for said portfolio, but you've got more of a chance if the Old Guy is gone, first.

Kratos-and-Drzzt-wannabies are... interesting, because I've never actually had anyone like that in my group. I was interested in playing a lawful neutral drow mage once, myself, but he was nothing like Drzzt, and none of my players have ever shown interest. I guess the closest to both of those I've ever seen in any game I've been in was me - one character I made was a chaotic good half-giant, half-drow, and wielded a double scimitar (not two scimitars) and was seeking vengeance for wrong done him. Too bad I didn't know about Drzzt (and Kratos didn't exist) when I made him.

Also, it heavily depends on what you mean by "Unsponsored" Deific Ascension. Mine generally don't need a sponsor, they need worshipers (it's just easier with a sponsor).


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Very interesting thread indeed - what about dragons - they are just big scaly dinosaurs aren't they? There are quite a few beasties that could be close descendants of dinosaurs, so where/how do we draw the line?

I suspect what you really mean are "real world/historically accurate (if they can be)" dinosaurs.

Me, I hate halfling thieves, I mean really, really hate them - 20 odd years of having players play them kind of does that to a GM.

For me, I think the things I hate most are those beasties that are so complex and have so many options (high level play usually), that you usually end up forgetting to apply something or other making them far easier than they should be. And on a bad day, it does happen. You know the one's - the aura ridden, DR reducing, SR resisting, Immune to Poking, Templated three times beastsies that take a whole bestiary page to describe what just one of them does.

Getting back to the dinosaur theme, play in my group and you have no chance of avoiding them - I am so old, I am one and I can still "Rawr"! :D


I don't care what's in my fantasy RPGs.

Guns? Get down to the nitty gritty, they aren't as crazy as people like to make them. (Also, if not a lot of people remember, A LOT of the pirate movies take place in fantasy settings, and we all (or should) know how many guns are in there.)

Wizards are OP? Well no crap. It's freakin MAGIC! It's not conjure moving sword, lance, or bow, it's Meteor Swarm, Wish, and Black Tentacles. (Yes, wizards are overpowered, but come on, it's magic.)

Dinosaurs? Hello, it's fantasy!? Honestly, one of these days, I just want to make a character that ride's a dinosaur into battle... And now, there's a feat for that!

Paladins? Of course I want a beacon of good, they aren't that hard to figure out.


I am fine with *almost* anything mentioned above being in my games. What I can't stand is no story behind why it exists. This ties in to my next peeve...

The ultra multi-classed hero. Barbarian/Wizard/Rogue, why are you able to cast highly intelligent spells, yet are dumb enough to fight with no armor and look like Conan, who can sneak around better than 90% of the party? Give me a good backstory and I'm OK. Just trying to have the best game character doesn't do it for me.

And actually...the player who had that combo had a pretty interesting story. Every so often the player would roll to "have a fit", seize up, and a different personality would take over utilizing the main skills of each class respectively.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The only thing that I don't like at all in my fantasy rpgs is modern or higher levels of technology. If magic exists, there is absolutely no reason why almost any given form of technology should be mixed with magic in some way. Magic is just way too convenient as a power source and a way of 'cheating' around difficult technical issues. So, non-magical computers, space ships, and death rays really bother me unless it is found in a very very large and isolated dead magic zone.


I don't like fantasy weapons that have no historical analogue, and generally ban them. (I'm looking at YOU, two-bladed sword!)

I don't like psionics in fantasy-- it's too much a "sci-fi" power for my tastes.

I'm not a big fan of guns in fantasy settings, unless it's a "fantasy Renaissance" kind of setting.

Unless you are running a straight-up fantasy steampunk setting (e.g. Girl Genius), airships and other steampunk stuff is right out.

And, why are Dwarves so often played as Scottish? (Mine tend to be more Nordic in flavor.)

While individual characters of any race can serve as comic relief, I don't like entire fantasy races that are one big joke.

And, the whole "dragon posing as a human" thing is SO overdone.

Oh, and why is the tavern owner ALWAYS a retired 9th-level fighter?


Haladir wrote:


Oh, and why is the tavern owner ALWAYS a retired 9th-level fighter?

No, I'm pretty sure he's a retired Barbarian 1/Bard 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Fighter 1/Monk (Martial Artist) 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Wizard 1/Alchemist 1/Cavalier 1/Gunslinger 1/Inquisitor 1/Magus 1/Oracle 1/Summoner 1/Witch 1/Expert 1/Commoner 1. Why else does he know ALL the things?

... By the way, he's a totally legal character.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Marthian wrote:
Haladir wrote:


Oh, and why is the tavern owner ALWAYS a retired 9th-level fighter?

No, I'm pretty sure he's a retired Barbarian 1/Bard 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Fighter 1/Monk (Martial Artist) 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Wizard 1/Alchemist 1/Cavalier 1/Gunslinger 1/Inquisitor 1/Magus 1/Oracle 1/Summoner 1/Witch 1/Expert 1/Commoner 1. Why else does he know ALL the things?

... By the way, he's a totally legal character.

I'm suddenly curious about what the typical tavern owner's oracle curse is. Can't be haunted, or that tavern wouldn't last very long. Maybe tongues, since that would explain why no one can understand what he says when he starts cursing at people.


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Lost post due to Citrix session crash, but the TL;DR version follows.

I don't allow for gods being killed to take their portfolio OR for sport. I allow for the theft of portfolios, or the usurping of same, and only when there's comparable power being siphoned between challenger and defender can actual death become an option, because then it's Highlander time. Gods don't sponser others for Godhood easily because it weakens them, passing a bit of their Spark of the Divine into their would-be peers. Usually one becomes an ascended favored servitor, on the lower end of the scale, but that step makes becoming more akin to your god/dess easier, and makes a great probationary period. Spontaneous ascensions should be rarer than a unicorn and harlot friendship.

Kratos types are my way of referencing one-man Gotterdammerungs. IE *image macro* KILL ALL THE GODS */image macro*. Which...is an extension of what was said above.

I dislike assigning HP to anything that doesn't need them because INVARIABLY someone wants to try to kill it and dry hump it.

It's a pet peeve. I like my gods...well, godly.


Guns. Unless it's a modern-ish setting or Sci-Fi, I just don't like guns in my fantasy games. Period.


Josh, I agree on the gun/setting part. While I like my guns, I only put them if I'm running something Renaissance or later period. Conquistadors and Musketeers and the like.


I don't even care about real-world historical accuracy, I just prefer swords and sorcery to firearms. Sort of why I gave up on the Final Fantasy series of video games by the time 7 rolled around.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Gah, I mistyped my my post above.

Basically, I was trying to say that in a high magic setting, all forms of technology should be mixed with magic in some way simply because it is so easy to do compared to trying to develop high tech devices without magic. The clockwork are a great example of this.

So yea, I hate it when non-magical space ships and death rays start appearing in my fantasy settings.


Black and white morality.


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In the game I am in the planning stages for, I'm going to allow much, if not all, of everything. The trick, as Pendin Fust argues, is that it all has to make sense.

During the course of the game, a Gnome artificer working with a Dwarf engineer are going to discover gunpowder. This will lead to the invention first of fireworks, then someone will figure the trick to filling the ends of hollowed out sticks with the GP that hurl smoothed rocks, working up to flintlocks, then six-shooters and maybe eventually lever action rifles. My hope is to have the game go long enough to reach a "wild west" sort of feel...in certain areas. I like the idea of of an anachronistic mix of pseudo Western gunfighters, Eurpean duelists/musketeers, walking amidst true fantasy character types. And to me, it's a natural progression. Why wouldn't someone in a fantasy world discover gunpowder?

As for dinosaurs, as far as I see them, they're just another kind of creature. What makes a dinosaur so different from a bullette or a giant slug? I don't think i'll be making them pop up in Absalom, but in the Mwangi Expanse? Sure, why not?

I also plan on introducing some steam punk elements, much like the gunpowder. I like Eberron's flying ships. Instead of harnessing elementals, though, I was thinking that some enterprising engineer (perhaps the same Dwarf) discovers helium, and then figures out how to attach a couple helium balloons to either side of a ship in order to give it flight.

Just because there's magic doesn't mean there can't be technology as well, or vice versa. That being said, I'm not sure about introducing actual spaceships or laser guns. That type of techno goes beyond even my acceptance of sci-fi in fantasy settings.


I don't know who or what ruined their image (probably Warcraft), but I detest gnomes. They are not available for play at my table.

Dinosaurs have yet to exist in my games for similar reasons to those others have mentioned, though I have really wanted to find a way to turn the ankylosaurus (did I spell that right?) into a magical beast. The mace-tail is kind of badass.

That's all I can think of really. I'm open to a lot of things in fantasy games. If firearms are involved, I actually prefer to run revolvers instead of flintlock. Asian culture hasn't been used yet, but not for a dislike of it; I'll probably rob the Avatar (TLA/LoK) universe for ideas there.

Lately I'm interested in running a game where none of the core races are options and all options are new, alien-like races. I'm slowly putting that together since the ARG playtest.


scrmwrtr42 wrote:
In the game I am in the planning stages for, I'm going to allow much, if not all, of everything. The trick, as Pendin Fust argues, is that it all has to make sense.

This is pretty much exactly how it worked in my homebrew setting, with some of the details moved around. What is available in game really just depends on where in the timeline the game is set. My Kingmaker's in the pre-renaissance age, while my PbP is full-on steampunk.


scrmwrtr42 wrote:
Just because there's magic doesn't mean there can't be technology as well, or vice versa. That being said, I'm not sure about introducing actual spaceships or laser guns. That type of techno goes beyond even my acceptance of sci-fi in fantasy settings.

I'm also working on a fantasy/sci-fi setting/theme that mimics concepts from Halo, Mass Effect, and Tron by using high level magic as a basis for mage-tech, especially the creation of magic items (with at-will illusion magic; Cortana anyone?). Imagine Eberron is Edison's light bulb, I'm trying to make this setting into a Cray supercomputer.


Matrixryu wrote:
I'm suddenly curious about what the typical tavern owner's oracle curse is. Can't be haunted, or that tavern wouldn't last very long. Maybe tongues, since that would explain why no one can understand what he says when he starts cursing at people.

I was thinking Legalistic. Not a horrific penalty, and why lie to your patrons?


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Nepherti wrote:
I don't like the idea of fantasy armor. That rule people seem to follow where the less armor it covers on a woman, the higher the AC bonus. I can't stand that pic of the Barbarian in the CRB.

I'll go you one better and say I don't like fantasy armor not for the chainmail bikini phenomenon, but simply because even the burly tank dudes just don't look right.

I like Wayne Reynolds' art a lot, but the boob-plates and powerfists I see in the Pathfinder art leave me nostalgic for the olden days when he would draw in a historically accurate style.

I sometimes think I'm the only person left who thinks real-world armor and weapon styles are actually cooler looking than this stuff. Like if Amiri's really big sword actually looked like a really big sword, instead of a hunk of stone or a JRPG covershot. Yes, I know, it was fashioned for a giant. But I don't think that's even what an actual giantsword would look like!

</tangent>


I actually managed to think of something I don't use.

NPC classes other than Expert.

Warriors are Fighters, no reason they shouldn't be, just low-level. Adepts are whatever caster class is appropriate. Commoners are statless blobs with 1 HP.

I generally start PCs at 2nd or 3rd minimum, so having 1st-level NPCs use PC classes is hardly breaking anything.


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PC rapists.


Orthos wrote:

I actually managed to think of something I don't use.

NPC classes other than Expert.

Warriors are Fighters, no reason they shouldn't be, just low-level. Adepts are whatever caster class is appropriate. Commoners are statless blobs with 1 HP.

I generally start PCs at 2nd or 3rd minimum, so having 1st-level NPCs use PC classes is hardly breaking anything.

A "high level commoner" has a lot of hit dice, but nothing else. I can't think of a purpose off the top of my head... I mean, I can't think of a 20th level commoner and make it seem reasonable.

doctor_wu wrote:
PC rapists.

I hope that's a given at ANY table... o_o;

The Exchange

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Nothing really, so long as it makes sense. I haven't GMed for long, so I haven't really seen anything I have said "Not gonna happen" to. I'm fine with the Han Solo-style gunslinger right next to the Conan-style character right next to the Black Knight-style character. Its what happens when 4 guys get together to play a game described as fantasy.

Also, Evil Lincoln, I like boob-plate. It makes me smile for 2 main reasons: 1) Boobs 2) The absurdity is down right hilarious.


Players that assume/demand that a new option from a new source book have a place in a pre-established world or long running homebrew setting or that your rearrange the world to fit it in.


Gondolin wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:


Perhaps some of you would hate guns and Ninjas less if your fellow players showed some restraint and left them on the shelf during your Aurthurain Europe enspired campaign...but that doesnt mean that the entirety of a fantasy RPG should pigeon hole everyone into playing Heavy plate and pointy hat high fantasy.

The question was : things you just don't like in your fantasy RPG's.

There doesn't have to be a logical reason to this. It is an emotional response. It does not mean what you have in your's is wrong. I, for one, am interested in knowing what bugs you in your RPG.

That's just it, I don't have a one size fits all answer. Maybe that's the difference, I grew up playing 2 or 3 campaigns at a time and DMing one Or two as well. All with different favors, magic levels, tech levels, cultures etc... It actually drives me nuts when a DM flat out says I hate this for no reason other than personal taste and won't allow it in any game regardless of setting. Guns would bother me greatly In a high fantasy game..but if we are playing In three musketeers style renaissance era game I would think it silly not too have them. Does that make sense? Im not trying to come off as rude or tell people they are wrong. I just think they are missing out.


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Hmm...

I have to say I'm pretty tired of the 'better-than-thou' noble savage orcs that have proliferated since Warcraft 3.


I'm also not a fan of mixing Asian-themed stuff with European-style stuff willy-nilly. All assassins aren't ninjas.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Love dinosaurs, love gnomes.

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