A Character Concept About Clockworks


Pathfinder Society

Dark Archive 1/5

Hi Everyone!,

First of all, I have to say that I'm pretty new to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, and a relatively new GM. Our group here in Turkey is also could be considered practically new...

So I've a question, and my Venture-Lieutenant was not sure if it was allowed in Pathfinder Society, he told me to go to the Paizo messageboards and ask there, and you guys are amazing with the ideas you come up here.

You might not like it, since most of you here are old school players, but please just hear me out.

So here it is: I was reading through the "Inner Sea World Guide", then I found a section about technology. By reading about this section and knowing a little bit about Clockwork Academy in Absalom, I've came up with a character concept, thus creating it; Kiili, a gnome sorcerer of Arcane Bloodline. Unfortunately, he has advanced to level 2 without even being able to roleplay him. He has advanced into level 2 right now.
[1 game I played with Valeros and GM'ed 2 sessions, transferred those credits to Kiili]

He has a high Intelligence and Charisma score. So Kiili is interested in working on clockworks, and wants to use Grand Lodge's vast knowledge and sources to obtain them, whilst keeping on working in Clockwork Academy. His ultimate goal is to master this knowledge, both in lore and in practice, and after obtaining a respectful position in the Society, go out to help needy people with his high tech skills and arcane powers.

His character sheet is completed, but I'm still designing his background and I have a slight idea about his character development (he'd probably multiclass in some level to wizard, even if he finds it a bit dull, after all, tasting wizardry is in the blood)

In my character, I would like to use the following section, and combining it with Clockworks section, just to add up a different flavor in roleplaying.

Numerian Tech @ Inner Sea World Guide -- page 256-257:

Game Impact: The futuristic weapons, robots, and
devices that await discovery in Numeria could fill an entire
book. Certainly the vast range of otherworldly weaponry,
nanotechnological wonders, cybernetic miracles, robotic
menaces, and the like could rival the lists of magic items
presented in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. Yet the
game effects of such strange technology can be duplicated
by current effects in the game. A laser pistol might
work similarly to a wand of scorching ray. Cybernetically
implanted muscles might simply function like a manual
of gainful exercise +4.

...etc

I'm aware that we're not allowed to craft anything in the Organized Play, but is quasi-crafting allowed, just to enhance the roleplay in sessions? I would neither be making anything that would improve my skills nor my abilities nor giving me new powers. The only thing I'd use my Craft Clockworks in would be in Day Job Rolls (I guess that is allowed).

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Spoiler:

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Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance :)

Liberty's Edge 5/5

You can always pay full price for something and then claim you made it -- as long as there is no mechanical advantage for doing so (e.g. Proficiency from the Gnome racial trait: Master Tinker).

You also may want to purchase some of the clockworks listed for sale in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.

1/5

I wouldn't see an issue with this. You'd just using a "tech" flavor on your items and spells, as described in the Numerian chapter of ISWG. Sounds like a fun character.

(Then again, in Living Forgotten Realms, I play a similar concept...a warforged artificer with a tech flavor, based on Iron Man. :-D )

5/5 5/55/55/5

You can buy a clock shop with 5 prestige points.

Artisan’s Shop (5 PP): Your craft is your livelihood when
you aren’t excavating musty tombs or exploring uncharted
lands. You sell your wares through an unassuming
storefront in a well-trafficked mercantile district. If you
use ranks in any Craft skill to calculate your bonus on
Day Job checks, having an artisan’s shop grants you a +1
circumstance bonus on all such checks. Additionally, you
receive a 5% discount on all nonmagical merchandise in
your area of expertise when purchasing it in the same city
as your shop, rounded to the nearest gold piece.

Scarab Sages

I think that's an awesome idea! The reskinning of a wand to a blaster might make some GMs frown, but worst case scenario you downplay it if it becomes an issue. I sincerely doubt anyone will take offense to you roleplaying being an arcane clockmaker, or even saying in character that you crafted the objects you possess. A masterwork heavy crossbow could definitely be reskinned without complaint I imagine, even if the wand-to-blaster might not always fly.

That said, if you're into magical clockwork, a really fun fit might be the Oracle of Time for future multiclassing. It benefits from your high Charisma, and a one level dip will give you access to high tech healing as well as blasting.

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

If you really enjoy the Numerian background you should look at getting the recent novel, City of the Fallen Sky. In addition to the good story, you can get a boon chronicle to apply to your character which could help represent your character's experience in Numeria or just his life tinkering with strange devices.

5/5

Fasrial wrote:

I think that's an awesome idea! The reskinning of a wand to a blaster might make some GMs frown, but worst case scenario you downplay it if it becomes an issue. I sincerely doubt anyone will take offense to you roleplaying being an arcane clockmaker, or even saying in character that you crafted the objects you possess. A masterwork heavy crossbow could definitely be reskinned without complaint I imagine, even if the wand-to-blaster might not always fly.

That said, if you're into magical clockwork, a really fun fit might be the Oracle of Time for future multiclassing. It benefits from your high Charisma, and a one level dip will give you access to high tech healing as well as blasting.

It has been pointed out before reskinning is frowned upon. Wittkyrd your best bet is to use the suggestions made by Will and BigNorseWolf.

FAQ wrote:

Can I re-skin or re-flavor an animal companion or item?

You may choose a specific type of animal companion from any of the base forms listed on pages 53–54 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook or a legal Additional Resource but may not use stats for one base form with the flavor of another type of animal. Thus, a small cat could be a cheetah or leopard, as suggested, as well as a lynx, bobcat, puma, or other similar animal; it could not, however, be "re-skinned" to be a giant hairless swamp rat or a differently-statted wolf. If a GM feels that a re-skinning is inappropriate or could have mechanical implications in the specific adventure being played, he may require that the creature simply be considered its generic base form for the duration of the adventure. A player may not re-skin items to be something for which there are no specific rules, and any item a character uses for which there are no stats is considered an improvised weapon (see page 144 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook).

Shadow Lodge 1/5

In the Field Guide for PFS, there are small clockworks you can get for going down hallways to check for traps.

Scarab Sages

O.o What's this now?!!
There's clockwork stuff in Numeria? O.O
Holy crud, I need to read more of the Inner Sea World Guide!

I have to admit, this is a really cool idea. In Living Greyhawk, I always shied away from the little clockwork stuff there was because it wasn't very firmly entrenched in the setting. But, in Golarion, if there's a place where it is that strongly in the flavor of the campaign, I am *so* going to be taking a closer look at it!

<cheer!>

Scarab Sages

I wasn't aware of the zero tolerance policy on reskinning - it makes sense though. But perhaps reskinning isn't exactly the word I was looking for in regards to the crossbow - describing a crossbow, especially a masterwork or magical one, as a complicated clockwork contraption would most likely not cause any complaint.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

A crossbow is a complicated contraption. Stick a few decorative cogs on it, pick up magical goggles, and your steampunk sorcerer is ready to hit the streets.

Shadow Lodge

If you want to be even more steampunk, couldn't a gnomish summoner's Eidolon look like some sort of clockwork contraption?

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Fasrial wrote:
I wasn't aware of the zero tolerance policy on reskinning

that's because there isn't one. Reskinning isn't barred. In fact, the text quoted above specifically says that it can't be reskinned into something that can't be adjudicated. There has to be rules for it. In the case above, for example, it's a wand. It functions as a wand. It follows all rules for wands. It couldn't be skinned as an instant death ray that has unlimited charges and automatically hits every time. But it can be skinned into something that works just like a wand.

4/5 ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ummmm, Kristoph... I don't think you understand the re-skinning rules in PFS.

Ignoring your straw golem death ray which has nothing to do with re-skinning we have this:

Your wand is not a clockwork device, it is a wand.
"Physical Description: A wand is 6 to 12 inches long, 1/4 inch thick, and weighs no more than 1 ounce. Most wands are wood, but some are bone, metal, or even crystal. "

I however see nothing wrong with a wand made of cogs or that has a cog top that fits the physical dimensions necessary for a wand or even has moving cogs when used, since the wand description is so vague.

However it is still a wand, just a cool looking wand. It's not a clockwork device that happens to be represented by the wand rules.

As a note one of my character's has a dessicated demon's claw (bone) as his infernal healing wand.

3/5

I think that the wand example is totally fine. It can be a clockwork device that conforms to the standard for what wands have to be shaped like, or it can be a clockwork device of a more interesting description depending on how rabid the DM is about fluff.

Does it matter that it makes laser beams because it is Numerian tech and not literal scorching rays? Or does this not fit your criteria for reskinning?

4/5 ****

The Numerian material does not appear to be legal in PFS (see additional resources) so no laser beam "wands" in PFS. If you want to shout pew pew pew laser beams! every time you fire your wand, go for it though.

3/5

I was unaware that there was any Numeria crunch yet, PFS legal or otherwise.

I'm talking about fluff though, and I'm pretty sure that even in PFS you can't declare fluff illegal if it is an actual thing from Golarion.

Scarab Sages

Pirate Rob wrote:

Ummmm, Kristoph... I don't think you understand the re-skinning rules in PFS.

Ignoring your straw golem death ray which has nothing to do with re-skinning ...
The reason that I made the random comparison was to point out that the reskinning rules say that an item can't be reskinned into something for which there are no rules.
Quote:

I, however, see nothing wrong with a wand made of cogs or that has a cog top that fits the physical dimensions necessary for a wand or even has moving cogs when used, since the wand description is so vague.

However it is still a wand, just a cool looking wand. It's not a clockwork device that happens to be represented by the wand rules.
As a note one of my character's has a dessicated demon's claw (bone) as his infernal healing wand.

I think that we're both saying the same thing, in essence. Although, I was under the impression that reskinning meant that the "physical description" would no longer apply, but all of the "crunch" would. For example, the Bestiary gives specific examples of reskinning creatures ... despite the particular critter using the same stats, they look entirely different than the animal in the rules. For example, a Schnauser and a jackal are very different, but, both would be statted as a "dog".

Dark Archive 1/5

Sorry, I wasn't able to reply for a long time.

Let me make this clear, the example I gave was about the similarity of Numeria, Numeria is more of High-Tech stuff, laser guns and similar stuff, they are not really related to Clockworks and Steampunk theme. Yet the Clockwork Academy has been introduced, there are mentions of Clockwork Golems and there is even a clockwork god, called Brigh.

Well, what I wanted to do is, using my spells and wands via a roleplay of a steampunk character, no more no less, I'm well aware of, and definately will use the same spell mechanics and DC's. It is nothing but a fluff.

A simple example might be, using stinking cloud spell appearing out of a mechanical arm by turning the gas valve on.

So, I need some clarification here:
@Brian Lefebvre says that there are no specific rules about it, so he tells me not to use it, but in the text he copied, it says:

FAQ:
If a GM feels that a re-skinning is inappropriate or could have mechanical implications in the specific adventure being played, he may require that the creature simply be considered its generic base form for the duration of the adventure.

So, in case I inform my GM's about my re-skinning, and if they approve it, does that mean I can use it?

@Will Johnson & @BigNorseWolf , These are legit and good suggestions, tons of thanks :)

@Dylos , I'm very unfamiliar with Eidolons and the Summoner theme, and roleplaying such a character doesn't really fit anywhere in my mind :(

I appreciate everybody's support and discussion in this subject, thanks :)

Liberty's Edge 5/5

The problem with reskinning is there are often mechanical ramifications of reskinned spells. Let's take a look at your example:

If your character casts stinking cloud by turning a knob on the arm of his mechanical arm:
1. Does this change the DC of an opposed spellcraft roll to determine what you are "casting"?
2. Does this mean you can never cast a stilled version of stinking cloud?
3. If an opposed fighter witnesses this, can they sunder your mechanical arm? If so, what impact does this have in game? Beyond not having a hand now, can he still cast spells?
4. If a wizard, does he still use a rotten egg or cabbage leaf as the material component? If so, does he have to load these into the mechanical hand?

These types of issues can be easily hashed out and agreed upon in home games. However, in an open, organized play session, it's too big a pain in the neck to have to go through a 150 point FAQ on your character with a new GM and get his or her buy in on every reskinned component. As a result, it simply isn't allowed.

Scarab Sages

The direct answer to all of those things is: nothing changes.
Spellcraft doesn't change, Still Spell doesn't change, DC doesn't change, etc.

Wile yes, in a home game, stuff could change, that is the point of reskinning: nothing changes.

And to the question of GMs accepting your reskinning, yes, you mention it to the GM and if he thinks there's mechanical problems with it, you just play it normally for that scenario. But, in all likelihood, if you're polite about it, and explain to him the RP, and that you don't want any rules to change for it, then you should be allowed to play a reskin.

Dark Archive 1/5

Will Johnson wrote:

The problem with reskinning is there are often mechanical ramifications of reskinned spells. Let's take a look at your example:

If your character casts stinking cloud by turning a knob on the arm of his mechanical arm:
1. Does this change the DC of an opposed spellcraft roll to determine what you are "casting"?
2. Does this mean you can never cast a stilled version of stinking cloud?
3. If an opposed fighter witnesses this, can they sunder your mechanical arm? If so, what impact does this have in game? Beyond not having a hand now, can he still cast spells?
4. If a wizard, does he still use a rotten egg or cabbage leaf as the material component? If so, does he have to load these into the mechanical hand?

These types of issues can be easily hashed out and agreed upon in home games. However, in an open, organized play session, it's too big a pain in the neck to have to go through a 150 point FAQ on your character with a new GM and get his or her buy in on every reskinned component. As a result, it simply isn't allowed.

Thanks Will, your message has enlightened me a lot. Although this wouldn't change DC's for spellcraft and design of this wouldn't have any effect in mechanics (for example-- the knob being turned on by itself from a tingling energy sent from body could be for still spell?), still this might GM's trying to "sunder" my mechanical arm as you've mentioned.

I won't force it anymore, these points you have makes a lot of sense and I will inspect everyone's reskinning attempt in this aspect. I have no more questions.

Sovereign Court 4/5

and of course you will want to worship Brigh, the whisper in the bronze.

Grand Lodge 1/5

Of course I do my friend, all of my colleagues praise Brigh, it is some kind of mutuality ;)

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