In regards to Daeminthos, I didn't include references to a struggle because there was none; the two did not battle in the slightest.
While I appreciate your suggestions (and I really like the Malebolge Moors suggestion), you need to keep two things in mind.
First, while the spirit's legend is an important draw, I'm much more concerned with the game mechanics right now. Dario and I have to hire an editor anyway; what we need are gamers to test the rules for us.
Second, if anyone is going to offer suggestions on changes to the legends, they need to make sure that they're not adding a whole bunch of additional words and sentences, even if it makes it sound better. I am not kidding when I say that many spirits are literally fitting on the page by a margin of characters, let alone words (Jayna Warlock and Demos Kalagos come to mind).
Young artisans are often reminded of the infamous tale of Istago to warn against allowing others to influence their art. According to the tale, Istago was a legendary mural painter whose talent was beloved by nobility far and wide. One day, Istago was commissioned by a baron who wished a wall in his summer cottage painted so it reminded him of nothing to aid in his relaxation. After many criticisms, the maddened Istago finally painted the wall without shapes; only abstract blotches of color, to which the baron replied that it now reminded him of Istago. Istago went mad that day and left muttering in broken tongue, never to paint or be seen again.
Vampires fear the name of N’alyia, as according to their ancient customs and traditions, N’alyia was the first of their kind and therefor the blood matron of nearly every vampire in existence. So powerful was the first vampire that N’alyia was able to surpass all of the weaknesses of her kind; she walked through daylight without fear and neither moving water nor lack of invitation hindered her whimsy. N’alyia’s exact whereabouts are unknown; some believe that N’alyia was slain and scoured while others say that in her greatness, N’alyia learned to transcend the cycle of life and undeath.
The drow whisper tales of the drowess Vandrae, who supposedly committed an act so vile that a goddess of love tore her soul out where she stood, convinced that she no longer deserved the beauties of this world. While no official confirmation has ever been recovered from either the goddess or Vandrae, occult scholars speculate that Vandrae did something to defile the very concept of love for her people. The drow, on the other hand, tell a myriad of tales about Vandrae, most involving her gleefully striking down legions of surface dwellers, her murder spree ending only by the intervention of an elven god and drow typically view Vandrae a martyr for this reason.
At a young age, Xalen d’Marek devoted his life to knowledge. Born into a soldier’s family, young Xalen followed his fathers and brothers to battle if only to see the monsters that had captured his imagination at a young age first hand. As the boy blossomed into manhood, his love for the weird and strange grew evermore until it eclipsed his family, estate, and hopes of romance. Legends state that one day Xalen peered up from his laboratory as an old man and looked around his ruined home, realizing how little he had done with his life. Xalen knew there was no going back for him and not long after he filled a will that left his possessions and estate to the college that trained him as a youth, Xalen vanished forever.
The irony of Istago is deliciously palpable.
One of the best strategies to stall a fey creature is to ask it of the satyr called Baraddu, for all but the wickedest souls oblige. Though long forgotten by mortal men, Baraddu was all but a living god to the fey; he was as charming as a summer evening, as gleeful as a blooming sunflower, and as social as a singing sparrow. As Baraddu’s fame grew over his countless years, many gods grew jealous of the satyr and when his soul stood awaiting its final judgment those gods ripped Baraddu from his peaceful afterlife and warped him into a hideous beast, setting him loose to wander the forests of the outer planes forever. Some occult scholars believe this slight is why many fey choose not to worship the gods.
Men have long told stories in order to explain the alien and bizarre things in their world and few creatures are as bizarre as the otyughs. Unlike many others, the stories of the first otyughs are both innumerably ancient and relatively unvaried. According to old legends, the otyughs were once a mighty and proud race that existed to restart the natural cycle by consuming all that was rotten and decayed. An otyugh queen called Gulguthriana noted their unique role in the gods’ plan and declared to her people that they deserved to rule the world, so they dominated the lesser races and began herding them as cattle to fuel their emerging, gluttonous urges. After countless generations of oppression, her “cattle” began to revolt as her fellow otyughs were turned into the feebleminded monsters they are today by the gods. With her dying breath, Gulguthriana cursed all of creation as her soul, stained beyond repair by sin, departed.
Tales of the legendary Book of the Damned existed alongside the first writings of men in all cultures, but one of the rarest stories surrounding it is an epic about the angel known as Serapith. In the epic, Serapith stumbles upon the Book of the Damned, blind to its horrors as it was written by an angel. Upon reading the tome and learning that mortal souls fuel the endless hordes of fiendish beings, Serapith goes mad and tries to protect his celestial home from the tides of darkness by ending all mortal life. Serapith was felled by his creators and laid to rest in a tomb that existed beyond the folds of space and time so he might find peace.
A famous elven fable about valuing family involves a mythological princess named Loviatha who ruled an icy kingdom far to the north. Loviatha obsessed over horses and demanded the finest mare in the kingdom of her father at every birthday. During the celebration of her 100th year as her brothers squabbled over their father’s throne, Loviatha demanded a black unicorn of her brothers, stating that the beast could only be ridden by a true king. One by one, her brothers died in pursuit of this impossible goal until the youngest brother finally claimed to have found it. He brought Loviatha before the fabled beast, the King of Ice, who asked Loviatha what her dearest wish was. When she replied, the unicorn revealed itself as a genie and transformed Loviatha into the first, and only, black unicorn.
The topic of elemental theory drastically varies from professional to professional; resulting in two major theories on the range of elements. Traditionally, wizards employ the four-element theory, naming air, earth, fire, and water as elements while alchemy employs the five-element theory, naming fire, wood, earth, metal, and void as elements. Occult magic, however, employs a seven-element theory, consisting of air, earth, fire, metal, void, water, and void as elements. Occult scholars attribute this practice to a suli by the name of Jayna Warlock who, according to her journals, was dismissed from the genie academies for her theories, prompting her to abandon her studies in search of proof.
The irony of Istago is deliciously palpable.
My favorite part about his newly revised legend is that I have artist friends who have had that exact reaction to their commissioners. :)
You know, except without the whole "going irrevocably insane and painting yourself out of reality" thing.
The story of Loh’moi is barely remembered but is publically available to conjurists; Loh’moi’s journal has been copied a million times over for his research on geometry, it’s tale glimpsed over for being “unimportant.” Loh’moi’s father was murdered when he was but a lad and his journal suggests that the geometer was obsessed with returning to the past in order to prevent his father’s death. Ultimately, Loh’moi theorized that no mortal mind could comprehend the formula needed for the task, so he decided to teleport into his own mind in order to expand it, allowing him to surpass this mortal limitation. The journal ends there.
Legends speak of a mythological king known as Arturius who was given the divine right to rule as a child. Born the youngest son to a petty noble, Arturius claimed his destiny when he drew a mythological blade from where it was stuck in a formation of rock. Though his rule was kind and just at first, the gods grew angry with Arturius as he grew fat from debauchery until finally he sired an illegitimate son. Though Arturius ordered all babes of that year drowned, the son survived and grew to slay his father and end his reign, no longer blessed by the gods. Arturius was buried within a barrow hidden from time, the legend a testament to the corruptibility of men.
The sea has always held a grim mystery beneath her waves, many cultures telling stories of what fantastic and horrifying things might lie beneath it. One such tale, belonging to several scattered tribes of island-dwelling tribes, tells of a being whose name is loosely translated as ‘That which Invades.’ Depicted as nothing more than a single, massive tentacle, the creature is believed to sink cities and vessels, cause storms, and spawn monsters from its lair in the ocean deeps. Many specialists scoff at the idea of such a creature existing, but the missing people who have gone searching for the beast and the eerie lights floating up from the ocean depths casts curiosity and into dangerously open minds.
Hobgoblins are infamous for their extreme discipline and heavily reliance on martial law as a punishment tool and when questioned on the topic, the more even-tempered hobgoblins tell the story of the three “rakshasa princes.” According to the legend, there once was youth who was drafted into the great armies of the hobgoblins. The demented youth decided that he was above his people’s martial ways and sought to rule them all, enticing other younglings with stories of power. The hobgoblins say that the youth turned to forbidden magic in order to achieve his ends; he learned how the six could ascend past their mortality and become princes among the rakshasa. They began to slay their commanding officers to initiative the blood ritual but failed; the hobgoblins believe that their god descended upon the traitors in the guise of a ghostly wolf and hunted them down, ripping their throats out one by one.
Unlike many of the other spirit legends, the tale of Vodavox is not well documented among any group of people. Through investigation, occult scholars have uncovered the tale of a drow entomologist who explored arachnids especially, using his psychic powers to “milk” them of their deadly poisons to fund his research. The entomologist feared death as he grew older, so in order to stave off his inevitable death the drow planned to psychically link his mind to a swarm of insects and spiders, hoping to allow his consciousness to forever bounce from host to host, allowing him to live forever. As the journal stops there, occult binders are unsure whether or not his plan succeeded.
Demos Kalagos is an oddity among the spirits because no proof of his existence has been discovered in our reality. Demos himself insists to occult sages that he was once part of our reality, but this could simply be dismissed as the mad ramblings of a soul that has been expelled from mortality for much too long. Seeming surprisingly sane for a spirit, Demos claims that he was a notorious trickster who, in turn, was tricked by time itself into becoming expelled from the cosmos, turning him into a spirit. As far as occult scholars know, the concept of time is not conscious, so Demos’s ramblings are often excused as just that; ramblings.
This concludes my updated shorts series :).
Hope I'm not too late to get in on this, just found it today. I would like to get in on the play test, I've been trying to create a binder character in a pathfinder game for ages and just got the opportunity. Its unfortunate that I just discovered your work and the pact magic site, from what I have read you guys have a brilliant take on pact magic, and I love the fact that you didn't cut the lore that really is the meat and potatoes of the system.
In any case, if it's not too late, I would love to get in on this.
Hope I'm not too late to get in on this, just found it today. I would like to get in on the play test, I've been trying to create a binder character in a pathfinder game for ages and just got the opportunity. Its unfortunate that I just discovered your work and the pact magic site, from what I have read you guys have a brilliant take on pact magic, and I love the fact that you didn't cut the lore that really is the meat and potatoes of the system.
In any case, if it's not too late, I would love to get in on this.
You don't appear to have PMs enabled; PM me from an alias that is able to do so and I'll send it to you, probably around 6pm EST (3pm PST).
I do want to take this time to announce something; Dario has a business trip next week so he's going to start the book's layout ... now-ish. What that means for me (and all of you) is that your feedback has a hard deadline of Saturday at the absolute latest to be considered. Please post any feedback you have or playtesting information you have gathered before this time. We'll do errata and such as they pop up, but for the book to be ready in time for PaizoCon as we planned, we need to get the proverbial ball rolling. :)
Okay, I lied. One more.
An ancient elven tale warning adolescents about the unnaturalness of interspecies love speaks of two twins named Essek and Avix. According to the tale, from the day the two half-dragons were born to their elven mother, Essek and Avix bickered and squabbled with one another over all matters. While there are countless versions of the tale, each with their own reasons as to why the twins came to blows, all versions of the tale agree that both Essek and Avix ended their brother’s life after days of fighting tooth, claw, and flame. The tale ends with the knowledge that the twins were eternally joined together in death as part of an endless cycle of torment, no deity willing to intervene for an abomination.In addition, Essek Avix's titanic growth granted ability has been reduced to only increasing the binder's size by a single category but it also doesn't have a rounds per day limitation anymore. Basically, its the opposite of Aza'zati's smaller is better now. I like the juxtaposition, as both are dragon-constellation spirits.
Personally, I find the lack of duration worrisom...especially since it makes titanic growth and smaller is better a subsantively better ability than either Enlarge Person or Reduce Person. (The spells I believe they are trying to emulate.) Honestly, I think titanic growth and smaller is better should be put at a 1 minute per level duration during each usage so as to put them in line with the spells Enlarge Person and Reduce Person while still keep the utility. Basically, that the PC can shrink down/grow as many times per day as they want, but once the PC shrinks/grows they are only able to stay in that form for 1 minute per day as opposed to the current verbage which reads to me that once the PC shrinks/grows they can stay shrunk/grown indeffinately or until the PC gets bored and decides to go back to normal size.
Also, Fey Barradu's Fang ability reads at 7th level and every 3 binder levels thereafter, this bonus increases by. Then the sentence just ends. Just wanted to make sure it was corrected.
Never got into pact magic it before, but the way it's described now... it interests me. I even know a game I could try it a bit in.
I'll be using this in my new game for my husband (private game).
What I like best, though, are the constellations. My homebrew world is loosely Filgaia and the current area a mix of Prydain and Arthur (Bradley & Stewart versions +).
I'm already seeing the constellations as Guardians.
One comment I should have made before know, is how much I like the conversion of a number of classes in the 3.5 version to archetypes for the Pathfinder version. The classes in the 3.5 version were typically almost variant 3.5 classes, and switching them over to archetypes makes a lot of sense.
To be 100% honest, that assessment on my part is exactly how I got the role of authoring this book in the first place!
Ramblings on Enlarge / Reduce Person.
Agreed. It functions that you get a number of minutes / day equal to your binder level. You can spend them as you want, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments.
Also, that final line for Fey Barradu was caught by Caedwyr. Its supposed to read like this:
"At 7th level and every 3 binder levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1 (maximum +5)."
Never got into pact magic it before, but the way it's described now... it interests me. I even know a game I could try it a bit in.
I hope we deliver on the final product! I'm afraid that I'm closing off sending out new copies of the Playtest Document (the deadline is SATURDAY to get your feedback in! =O), but I hope some of these fine folk can convince you to jump on the Spirit Train!
I'll be using this in my new game for my husband (private game).
What I like best, though, are the constellations. My homebrew world is loosely Filgaia and the current area a mix of Prydain and Arthur (Bradley & Stewart versions +).
I'm already seeing the constellations as Guardians.
Here's a funny story about the Constellations.
When I read the original book, there was a bunch of names I HATED for Constellations. The one that REALLY bugged me was the Ghoul Constellation. I was like "Why is an entire constellation named after a CR 3 monster?!" So I changed them. Dario then made the comment that while he respected my decision to change it, he liked his own better. And that comment is literally what sparked the idea of suggesting alternate names for your Constellations and listing the "themes" that goes into them.
Because who's to say that the stars are the same in every campaign setting? :-P
Now that this is out of the way, I thought I'd share something with all of you playtesters. Dario has been hard at work formatting the new book (he's going away for a bit this weekend; its why we had to close up the Playtest Month sooner than expected) and he messaged me today to show me one of the sample pages.
I won't link the same page NOW, mostly because the sample was made using a VERY old draft I wrote of Aza'zati (he's easily one of Dario and my favorite spirits) and let me say that ... wow. It looks REALLY good. All of you who read / owned the original book are going to love the nostalgia. All of you new people are going to simply LOVE it much more than my pretty bottom-of-the-barrel basic-style word documents.
It looks so good, I almost cried. Seriously.
And on TOP of that, while I thought I eye-balled it correctly, the book's text is actually SMALLER than the text I used to write this document. So we actually have space for art on MANY more pages then we thought we would. You have NO idea how excited that makes me. No idea at all. Really, you don't.
Also, Dario is working on the new Pact Magic website thingie. We'll see how it goes, but apparently he's adding in a blog feature for us to blog in. In other words, he's giving me my VERY OWN SOAPBOX TO STAND ON!
*puts on Diva glasses*
I think my very first post on that site is going to be a spoiler on how Anima are going to work in the second book (assuming you guys make us popular enough for a second book!).
Yeh I'm interested in this
Alright, hey, first time posting here! Anyway, thanks again for getting this whole project kickstarted, Alexander!
I'd been playing a converted Tome of Magic binder in my campaign, and I got the DM's permission to rebuild him as an occultist. He's level 7, mostly focused on mobility and melee damage, with his typically bound spirits being Loh'moi and Vandrae. So far, Loh'moi's teleportation has proven to be his most valuable asset, with the rest mostly being nice extras. Vandrae's sneak attack synergizes wonderfully with Loh'moi's Geometric Agility, and her sleep touch has thus far proven invaluable in taking out enemies nonlethally.
Just to be clear, we can still send in feedback until the end of May (Thursday the 31st) right?
You can submit feedback until the book comes out and beyond if you prefer. If you want your feedback to have an impact on the material in the book, however, it needs to be submitted no later than Saturday.
I agree with Dario here. Deciding in-game thematic representations should not have the meta-game Challenge Rating as a factor. Ghouls are an iconic creature for what they are and what they do. That they're CR 3 shouldn't be a part of deciding if they have a constellation or not.
This really isn't a topic for debate or choosing sides. The default name is Skull Constellation. If you don't like it, then call it the Ghoul Constellation in your games; Dario and I left it open for DM alteration (and even offered suggestions) for that reason.
Personally, I thought it was weird to classify spirits like N'aylia (a Vampire) and Hexus (technically an ooze) under the category 'Ghoul' when a word like 'Skull' or 'Death' did the job better.
Like I alluded to, I am going to be taking some time off from Pact Magic writing for a little bit; probably for the month of June. I've been slacking on preparing stuff for my own house campaign and I need to fet moving on that! I'll still be floating around the forums and in this thread, however, so if you want to ask questions or whatnot, feel free to!
As soon as we have more information on the website, Dario or I will provide it. Until then, you can inhabit this thread.
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I was looking forward to using elements of this in my game Saturday and posting the feedback for it. I still will do this, but aside from that (and apparently grossing out Mr. Augunas with my Womb suggestion), I can't seem to find anything else that hasn't been put forth already by other playtesters. Looking forward to hitting my players with something they haven't seen before and seeing what their response will be.
I was looking forward to using elements of this in my game Saturday and posting the feedback for it. I still will do this, but aside from that (and apparently grossing out Mr. Augunas with my Womb suggestion), I can't seem to find anything else that hasn't been put forth already by other playtesters. Looking forward to hitting my players with something they haven't seen before and seeing what their response will be.
Actually, your womb suggestion made it into the final book. Congratulations! :D
Ok, first thoughts and fixes/edits. Apologies if I repeat something someone already discovered.
As for the stylistics of it, I love it. This really captures the feel of pact magic that got me into the first time, and I can't wait to see what you do with all 117 spirits.
Ok, fixes.
First off, the burst of fire Fiend Constellation Aspect doesn't specify what action it uses (presumably standard)
For the Binder Secret Create Pact Poltergeist, the feat doesn't specify whether or not the Poltergeist counts against the Binder's maximum number of bound spirits. If it doesn't, this provides an avenue for abuse by binding a multitude of spirits with the pact extended via the Flexible Pactmaking feat and having a small army of animated objects following you around for a few days with no real penalties.
The Soulsong of the Occult Muse Masterpiece has the action as 1 round. is this meant to be 1 full round?
Seal of darkness has a typo where it explains how it acts as a major granted ability
Upon playtesting the Foe Reaper Ranger Archetype (love the theme), I found their favored spirit enemy ridiculously powerful. Many of the spirits grant the Foe reaper the equivalent of 12+ favored enemies, all at the highest possible bonus. This also synchronized extremely well with later Ranger abilities, such as Quarry. Not sure how I would fix this, but as it stands it is dangerously powerful in many cases.
The last sentence in the Bind Spirits section of the Rogue archetype is cut off, presumably referring to the highest level of spirit the Untouchable can bind?
The Reweave Spellcasting feature of the Spell Weaver archetype is incredibly powerful. The main worry I have is that at level 7, 4th level spirits, and as such, can use Fox's Cunning as a minor granted ability. No matter what spirit the Soul Weaver binds from then on, they can replace a minor ability for a functional +2 to all DC's (assuming no other enhancement bonus). In a low-magic-item campaign, this became extremely powerful, as it mimics a Headband of Intellect +4 for most purposes. I suppose that what it really is is the fact that the Spell Weaver stands to gain much more then they give up for the archetype.
Woo, wall o' text. More to come, I'll start delving into the Spirits soon.
It seems quite late, but I just saw this thread and would be interested in participating. The closest I got to playing something regarding pact magic was a Warlock in 4E and I really enjoyed the lore of the class.
I rewrote that power like 12 times. I can't believe I missed that! Fixed.
For the Binder Secret Create Pact Poltergeist, the feat doesn't specify whether or not the Poltergeist counts against the Binder's maximum number of bound spirits. If it doesn't, this provides an avenue for abuse by binding a multitude of spirits with the pact extended via the Flexible Pactmaking feat and having a small army of animated objects following you around for a few days with no real penalties.Line added; it counts against you total number of spirits.
The Soulsong of the Occult Muse Masterpiece has the action as 1 round. is this meant to be 1 full round?Correct. Fixed.
Seal of darkness has a typo where it explains how it acts as a major granted abilityI assume you mean how I read "who" instead of "how." If that was the error, it is fixed. If it wasn't, please don't point at an ability and send me on a wild goose chase. :)
Upon playtesting the Foe Reaper Ranger Archetype (love the theme), I found their favored spirit enemy ridiculously powerful. Many of the spirits grant the Foe reaper the equivalent of 12+ favored enemies, all at the highest possible bonus. This also synchronized extremely well with later Ranger abilities, such as Quarry. Not sure how I would fix this, but as it stands it is dangerously powerful in many cases.Aye, but you also give up a lot to take this archetype. I'd say the biggest balancing factor here is that you lose access to ranger spells. People underestimate those sometimes and you also can't use wands or the like to mimic it. I agree that its a strong archetype, though.
The last sentence in the Bind Spirits section of the Rogue archetype is cut off, presumably referring to the highest level of spirit the Untouchable can bind?Should read like this:
"An untouchable can make pacts with spirits; their binder level is equal to their rogue level and an untouchable binds spirits as an occultist of their binder level. An untouchable’s binder level is equal to ½ their rogue level for determining their maximum spirit."
The Reweave Spellcasting feature of the Spell Weaver archetype is incredibly powerful. The main worry I have is that at level 7, 4th level spirits, and as such, can use Fox's Cunning as a minor granted ability. No matter what spirit the Soul Weaver binds from then on, they can replace a minor ability for a functional +2 to all DC's (assuming no other enhancement bonus). In a low-magic-item campaign, this became extremely powerfulTo be 100% honest, allowing a soul weaver to bypass the need for an enhancement item is the absolute bottom of my worries, as I'm sure that SOMEONE is going to figure out how to break that granted ability. If Dario has the space in the final copy, I may put more restrictions on it then you currently see here.
Also, I'm okay with Soul Weaver being a strong choice in a low magic setting. I think many GMs are going to enjoy the feeling that Pact Magic (aka ritualistic stuff) is more common in a magically primitive society.
Some updates:
The term "vestigial bonus" is gone. This is for balance reasons; having a new type of bonus that could essentially creep up the maximum bonus ceilings by as much as +10 made Pact Magic a no-brain option. Instead, all vestigial bonuses are now insight bonuses (except for bonuses granted by totems, which is a circumstance bonus).
Totemic Sage (barbarian) was changed. It no longer grants rage powers and the barbarian must give up its damage reduction to take the archetype. In exchange, totemic alignment was reworked to instead give you a bonus for selecting the appropriate rage power totems. Also, should a second book roll around it is my #1 priority to make sure that the totemic barbarian can select any of its restricted constellations at level 1 and have a spirit to bind with, meaning that Forash and Marat are confirmed to be two of the three spirits in the next book (*crosses fingers*) and that a new Tree spirit will be made to fill in the void.
Additional clarification on how the Occult Priest's spontaneous casting works will be added. There were many playtesters who incorrectly thought that the ability allowed the cleric to "lose" a prepared spell for any domain spell. That is not how the ability was intended to function; the cleric can literally cast domain spell slots spontaneously. The language is much better than what I am doing here ....
A line was also added in the start of Chapter 1 that clarifies that archetypes ONLY get the ability to bind spirits; not any other occultist class features (such as bind additional spirits or pact augmentations).
I am going to brainstorm some more on the Wizard archetype. One thing that I am thinking of adding is a clause that says spells with expensive material components cannot be chosen. However, I truly think that limiting the spell's duration to 4 rounds will, in most cases, prevent most forms of abuse. I am also planning on clarifying that rewoven spells use the spell's DC and not the granted ability DC.
Ok, second shot at this.
On Page 27 under Favored Ally and Enemy, it doesn't specify that being the spirit's favored ally is what increases the totem bonus
The Capstone enhancement to Sevnoir's baying howl makes a reference to a successful save giving immunity to the howl. The normal ability has no note of this.
Urbo's Major ability says the maximum healing is 6x their binder level. Presumably this means your binder level, as otherwise it becomes near useless if someone doesn't posses pact magic
Muse Istago's Perfect Attributes doesn't specify whether or not you can target yourself with this ability. If so, it becomes very strong on high level Occultists, who can use the +6 to Charisma to heighten the power of all other spirits bound to them. Invaluable perhaps, but in testing I didn't find it to be overpowered, simply strong.
Vandre's Sneak Attack says it stacks with any monk levels you posses. Does this mean rogue levels?
Fey Barruda's Barruda's Fangs ability's last sentence is cut of. I think it should read that the bonus increases by 1.
Loh'Moi's Geometric Agility says that after teleporting as a move action you may still take a standard action. Since you already have a move and standard action, I think it means after teleporting as a full round action.
The last sentence of Vodavox's Insectoid Companion reads "This is companion is." Slight typo, easy fix.
For Serapith's Major ability, it doesn't specify what type of damage the ability does. Is it untyped?
Under Serapith's personality, the first sentence is cut off. You become very arrogant towards?
Musha'Vadu's Aging Touch mentions a save towards the end of the ability, but never says of what kind.
Portenta's Fuse Flesh doesn't say the range or type of attack, if any, associated with the ability.
Portenta's vestigial companion doesn't say that it replaces an ability.
The wording for Essex Avix's Share Fate is a little odd. The damage done to you isn't reduced, correct?
Young Kiros's title is Author of Sedation. From his lore, I assume this is meant to be Author of Sedition?
For Young Kiros's Shrink Head ability, does missing the touch attack still expend the ability?
Is there a range for the Maleboge Moors' Word of Torment? The ability descriptor doesn't say.
That's all for now, and I must say, there wasn't a single spirit that I didn't love the lore for. I especially liked the shout outs to King Arthur and H.P. Lovecraft. Keep up the great work, I'll be sure to grab your book once it comes out!
One last note, I know that the deadline for the actual book is Saturday, but if I continue to test things, would you like me to post them here for later errata or similar?
Ok, second shot at this.
On Page 27 under Favored Ally and Enemy, it doesn't specify that being the spirit's favored ally is what increases the totem bonus
Fixed.
The Capstone enhancement to Sevnoir's baying howl makes a reference to a successful save giving immunity to the howl. The normal ability has no note of this.
Fixed.
Urbo's Major ability says the maximum healing is 6x their binder level. Presumably this means your binder level, as otherwise it becomes near useless if someone doesn't posses pact magic
Fixed.
Muse Istago's Perfect Attributes doesn't specify whether or not you can target yourself with this ability. If so, it becomes very strong on high level Occultists, who can use the +6 to Charisma to heighten the power of all other spirits bound to them. Invaluable perhaps, but in testing I didn't find it to be overpowered, simply strong.
The ability should read as this:
Perfect Attributes: As a standard action, you can perfect a creature, granting it a +2 enhancement bonus to an ability score of your choice. At 10th level, this bonus increases to +4 and at 15th level this bonus increases to +6. This bonus lasts until your pact with Muse Istago ends. This is a transmutation effect. You may apply this benefit to a number of creatures equal to your Charisma bonus and a creature can only have one ability score repainted at a time.
Also, don't forget that the bonus is an enhancement bonus, meaning it doesn't stack with items. High level occultists are probably going to have a Headband of Charisma +6 by level 14 or 15 (a particularly stingy GM that I play with still managed to give my 14th level sorcerer a +4 headband by 14th level).
Vandre's Sneak Attack says it stacks with any monk levels you posses. Does this mean rogue levels?
Yes. Copy / Paste strikes again!
Fey Barruda's Barruda's Fangs ability's last sentence is cut of. I think it should read that the bonus increases by 1.
Should read like this:
At 7th level and every 3 binder levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1 (maximum +5).
Loh'Moi's Geometric Agility says that after teleporting as a move action you may still take a standard action. Since you already have a move and standard action, I think it means after teleporting as a full round action.
The ability functions as dimension door. This is a little known line from that iconic spell:
You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired - whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction. After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn.
The last sentence of Vodavox's Insectoid Companion reads "This is companion is." Slight typo, easy fix.
Fixed.
For Serapith's Major ability, it doesn't specify what type of damage the ability does. Is it untyped?
Yes.
Under Serapith's personality, the first sentence is cut off. You become very arrogant towards?
Change it to this:
You become very arrogant and attempt to cull the wicked wherever you meet them.
Musha'Vadu's Aging Touch mentions a save towards the end of the ability, but never says of what kind.
Fixed.
Portenta's Fuse Flesh doesn't say the range or type of attack, if any, associated with the ability.
Its a touch attack. Fixed.
Portenta's vestigial companion doesn't say that it replaces an ability.
It replaces spirit step. Fixed.
The wording for Essex Avix's Share Fate is a little odd. The damage done to you isn't reduced, correct?
Nope. It is solely a vengeance mechanic. Do you have any suggestions on how to reword it.
Young Kiros's title is Author of Sedation Young Kiros's title is Author of Sedation. From his lore, I assume this is meant to be Author of Sedition?
Yup. Fixed.
For Young Kiros's Shrink Head ability, does missing the touch attack still expend the ability?
Yes, same with all touch attack-based powers.
Is there a range for the Maleboge Moors' Word of Torment? The ability descriptor doesn't say.
Yes. 60ft. of you and you must be able to see your target.
That's all for now, and I must say, there wasn't a single spirit that I didn't love the lore for. I especially liked the shout outs to King Arthur and H.P. Lovecraft. Keep up the great work, I'll be sure to grab your book once it comes out!
Thanks! If you're referring to Arturius and Evening Star, then you can thank Dario for those two. I admit that spirits such as those are among my favorites as well! Believe it or not, but both of those two weren't among the list of "popular" spirits from the original that Dario gave me!
Moving foreward, the Dark Beyond constellation is going to be my playing ground for Lovecraft stuff; I'm infamous for my Lovecraft-themed campaigns back at home. >: )
Keep an eye out for more creepy-eepy spirits as we move beyond this book. I actually just finished a draft of a spirit that is decidedly Marble Hornets themed ....
By the way, if you don't know what Marble Hornets is, here's a friendly warning. Don't watch it unless you are prepared for the distinct chance that you may not be able to sleep well for months. It doesn't happen to everyone and it really depends on what you find scary / creepy. If you're someone like me with an overactive imagination, you're not sleeping. Its on Youtube if you're brave.
One last note, I know that the deadline for the actual book is Saturday, but if I continue to test things, would you like me to post them here for later errata or similar?
Yes. Dario and I will apparently still be taking submissions. It doesn't matter to me either way; he's the poor bloke (I'll use bloke because he's going on a fantastic trip to London and beyond :-P) that puts the book's layout together, so in the long run he's only really making more work for himself; I'm more than happy to collect him a small star's worth of feedback while he's gone!
What time Saturday does feedback close?
Don't worry about the deadline; we'll still take the feedback if its late. Just get it in as soon as you can.
I'm actually not sure how much / what Dario's completed, to be completely honest.
A suggestion on how to reword the Essex Avix ability share fate.
"If the creature fails a Will save, every time you suffer hit point damage, the creature also receives damage equal to half of the total damage done to you, as long as they remain within 1 mile of you."
Just an idea, no pressure to change it if you like it as it is.
Also, was doing a bit of theory work on high-powered Soul Weaver builds. A minion-master style necromancy focused soul weaver benefits an extreme amount from binding Musha'Vadu. The Soul Weaver replaces Shadow walk with Undead Anatomy II as a minor ability, and takes the shadow vestigial companion for more minion support. You can use Musha'Vadu's major ability to heal your undead minions as you hurt your foes, and by using Undead Anatomy II, you can be healed by it as well. If you get his Capstone, then you can use it as both healing and cover for escape if necessary. Also, minion master necromancers tend to have mainly physical damage minions. Your shadow handing out ageing touch makes the enemies more susceptible to the attacks made by your minions.
A suggestion on how to reword the Essex Avix ability share fate.
"If the creature fails a Will save, every time you suffer hit point damage, the creature also receives damage equal to half of the total damage done to you, as long as they remain within 1 mile of you."
Just an idea, no pressure to change it if you like it as it is.
I'll think about it.
Also, was doing a bit of theory work on high-powered Soul Weaver builds. A minion-master style necromancy focused soul weaver benefits an extreme amount from binding Musha'Vadu. The Soul Weaver replaces Shadow walk with Undead Anatomy II as a minor ability, and takes the shadow vestigial companion for more minion support. You can use Musha'Vadu's major ability to heal your undead minions as you hurt your foes, and by using Undead Anatomy II, you can be healed by it as well. If you get his Capstone, then you can use it as both healing and cover for escape if necessary. Also, minion master necromancers tend to have mainly physical damage minions. Your shadow handing out ageing touch makes the enemies more susceptible to the attacks made by your minions.
Doesn't seem too bad to me. You're giving up 2 spells per spell level along with other benefits to do all that. Plus the "healing my minions with negative energy" thing is something a necormancer could do already (they get channel energy, after all).
Its a neat combo, but not particularly gamebreaking. I think instead of being passive for 24 hours, though, I am going to allow minor granted abilities to be active for a number of minutes per day equal to your wizard level. They don't need to be used consecutively, but they need to be used in 1-minute increments. I think that'll solve a LOT of the problems the soul weaver is still having.
Here we go:
Minor Granted Ability: Only spells with a target of ‘one creature’ or ‘you’ can be rewoven into lesser granted abilities. A minor rewoven spell only targets the soul weaver, even if the spell could normally target other creatures. The spell is activated using its normal casting time and it uses its normal duration; you do not need to use the rewoven spell’s duration consecutively but it must be expended in minute increments if the ability lasts minutes per caster level and hour increments if the ability lasts hours per caster level. Abilities of the polymorph subschool that are transformed into minor granted abilities function the same way each time they are used after the first time; you transform into the same creature each time, gain the same abilities and bonuses, etc.
Any spell can be rewoven into a major granted ability. A spell with a duration longer than instantaneous has its duration reduced to 4 rounds. After it is used, a major rewoven spell becomes expended for 5 rounds, just as a major granted ability does. Feats, class abilities, and similar abilities cannot reduce the number of rounds that a rewoven spell is expended for except the Rapid Reweaving feat.
The rest of the entry is still there; I only modified the minor / major bullets under that archetype. What do you all think?
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Sorry it took so long to get back, but I've been dealing with some family issues.
What I came up with for testing wasn't an occultist like I had originally planned. Instead, I ended up creating a 14th-level aasimar fighter with both the lore warden and warshade archetypes named Saker that specialized in the use of an Aldori dueling sword. His choice of bound spirit was Serapith, The Light That Scours. I also decided that pact magic was scarce, but that didn't affect the encounter at all (though that will make it difficult for them to learn more about the abilities he used against them).
The smite enemy ability granted by the bound spirit combined with the Furious Strike feat really annoyed them. Especially the paladin in the party, because he not only couldn't retaliate with his own smite (Saker's alignment of NG was the cause), but thanks to his use of the spell paladin's sacrifice, suffered the full damage of a rather nasty Improved Vital Strike that was backed up with Twilight's human bane enhancement (66 points of damage) before he even got to face him one on one. And when he did, it didn't go much better for him. After finding out that Saker didn't qualify for his use of smite evil, the player persevered and rolled a critical that was promptly negated by the lore warden ability hair's breadth. He was convinced that I had it out for him. Reinforcement came later at the end of the first round in the form of a wandering cleric of Desna. When his turn came again on round two, Saker was not willing to spill her innocent blood, so he used wrath of daylight and shade step to make good his getaway. The other players didn't know what to make of the encounter as this was the first time they had faced a good character as an enemy. Which got them to thinking why this guy was after them in the first place....
Overall, the encounter was a good one. The warshade archetype added a dimension to the character that made him memorable (the paladin in particular is looking forward to their rematch). The lack of weapon training did not hurt him as badly as I thought it might initially; if anything the lack of armor training proved to be more of a hindrance as shade step enabled him to get past the PCs (who made their Fort saves against wrath of daylight), which I described as shadowy afterimages left in his wake as he moved past before finally taking to the sky using angel's wings that pulsed with a blood-red tint. I wanted to cut loose with scouring light, but then Saker wouldn't have gotten away as cleanly as he did. I had to think carefully about how to use what abilities he had, but doing so didn't drag out the fight (I guess scouring those pdfs for errors paid off in a way I didn't think about at the time). My players are looking forward to facing him again and I can't wait to use him.
First, I like that the aasimar binded with Serapith. That's pretty thematic in and of itself, so props to you!
It definitely sounds like a great encounter and I'm glad to hear that the warshade worked out well for you; to be honest, not giving them easy access to Major Granted abilities was something I truly debated with myself on but reading about the class in action seems to varify that choice; the seals seem to be worth giving up the Major Granted Ability for in most cases.
The only thing that I am curious about is that I thought the Fighter had a binder level equal to 1/2 their fighter level for the purpose of binding spirits. In this case, Serapith would be beyond the fighter's ability to bind with, correct?
To be honest, I'm debating removing that restriction entirely in most cases; especially after reading about how this test run went.
I have just discovered this thread, and the products, so maybe you can enlighten me a bit. Pact Magic... are we talking about the same mecanics that WotC used for the Binder class in the Tome of Magic, using several Gothia spirits as vestiges ?
Not quite. We're testing a new, very similar class.
I'm not sure if you can still get a copy of the playtest. If it's too late to get a copy from you, Alexander, would it be permissable to pm JiCi with a copy from one of us?
Not quite. We're testing a new, very similar class.
I'm not sure if you can still get a copy of the playtest. If it's too late to get a copy from you, Alexander, would it be permissable to pm JiCi with a copy from one of us?
Woaw, woaw, woaw... hold your horses there !
I never said that I wanted to join the playtest, I just wanted to know what was this bout, since there was a similar class released by WotC.
I'll wait for the final product, that's good enough for me.
That's OK. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about the class, is all. ;)
Basically, yes. The original version of the book I updated, Dario Nardi's Secrets of Pact Magic was inspired by the Tome of Magic rules set of the same name. I'm not exactly sure how the story goes, but the basic gist of it is that Dario loved the original product and back during 3.5, the author of that sourcebook mentioned that the inspiration for Pact Magic came from a 17th century text, meaning that it could be replicated as long as Wizard's IP wasn't trounced all over. Dario made Pact Magic his own and published his first book, which I mentioned above, in 2007 (a year after the Tome of Magic came out).
2007, as you may (or may not) remember, was also right around the time when 4th Edition was in the works and also right around the time when Pathfinder started getting ground out. In my personal opinion, Dario's book (and its sequel) were less popular than they could have been because everyone was focused on what new things were coming ahead rather than what expansions to older ideas could be made.
Flash forward to last year, my friends and I stumbled upon Dario's work completely by accident while we were researching ways to update the Binder (Wizard's class) for our games. I fell in love with the book and contacted Dario not long after I sent several late nights reading and rereading the material. I submitted to him several ideas about how he could update the book and through persistence ended up writing half of the book before we stopped and were like, "Oh wow, this is actually happening, isn't it?"
We made our announcement that the book was happening and May and now Dario and I have started layout; by Dario and I, I mean that I point at pictures and go "I like that one!" and he does all the rest of the work xD.
We're hoping to get the final layout submitted to the editor soon-ish so that we can get any corrections made that need doing for the first printing, which is planned to be for sale at PaizoCon. Dario will be attending; I cannot. I'm one-part poor Substitute Teacher and one-part going on a family vacation that week, so if you all do show up, take a picture with Dario (or the book, or both!) and send it to Dario. We'll do ... something with them!
Long answer to a short question, I know!
Neat. So the creator of the original Binder is behind this? As I said, I never owned the orginal book and didn't recognize the name. Now I really wish I'd got a copy of the original.
Now, as for an aside, here's some fun stuff that's coming along the way; Dario and I have been talking about stuff we want to do going ahead, I can't share ALL the details with you, but I can share some stuff with you.
First, we're experimenting with ways to allow the material to be used in Community-based projects (namely psrd.org) without giving up too much of Dario's IP rights. We both like the idea of making the information available to the community, however, so stay tuned for that.
We're also talking about rebooting his old Pact Magic website. It really depends on how well the book does, but I think we'd both like a place where we can get interested people talking about the subject and whatnot. Also, I adore the idea of getting my very own soapbox to speak from, as I've jokingly alluded to several times in this thread, and a website or blog or SOMETHING could fill that gap.
Dario has been working hard on the layout of the book. Despite what you guys with the playtest document have seen, the final version of the book has a LOT of room. The text is better formatted and stylized, the headers look nicer, there's this AWESOME border that people who owned the original book will remember and love, and I think out of all 32 spirits in the book, only one of them doesn't have room for a piece of art. I can't remember which spirit that is for the life of me, but if I had to guess, it would be either Essek Avix or Jayna Warlock. Their entries are both fatty entries.
Until Dario says, "ALEX! WRITE ALL THE THINGS FOR ME!" I've been chilling out and taking a bit of a break from Pact Magic so I don't burn myself out from writing about it. I had plans, big ones, and I could easily fill a small library's worth of information on the subject. When I'm not working on writing out my personal campaign setting (I'm doing a slimmer Races of Golarion-style entries for my races at the moment) I'm busy working on those ideas. First and foremost is planning out every spirit I will write; as I've mentioned, I want exactly one spirit per constellation per spirit level, which comes out to about 117 spirits. As I type this, I'm actually working on a chart of every spirit that Dario has published and how I'd have to shuffle them around and fill in the gaps to meet my goal. I've used up all his spirits and most of the ones that are left are (unsurprisingly) high-level spirits and spirits of the Mage constellation and Dragon constellation.
Neat. So the creator of the original Binder is behind this? As I said, I never owned the orginal book and didn't recognize the name. Now I really wish I'd got a copy of the original.
Depends on what you mean by "original Binder."
Tome of Magic's writers (and therefore the creators of the Binder / Vestige system) have absolutely NOTHING to do with any of this. Nadda. Zip, zero, zilch.
What I was saying is that the original creator of the Binder was apparently asked on the Wizard Forums where he (or she) got the inspiration for the Binder from, because without a doubt it was the most popular class in the book. That person mention that their version of Pact Magic came from an old 17th Century text. Dario stumbled on that conversation, dug it up, and found out that he could therefore use the ideas because the basic idea of drawing a seal, performing a ritual, etc. was something Wizards didn't own in the same way that they own (for example) the Disciplines in the Tome of Nine Swords.
So, the original creator lead Dario to the realization that he COULD use this stuff, but did not and has never (to my knowledge) participated in or endorsed Dario's work.
Ah. OK, that's a little clearer.