So I have a player who's looking to join my game that's very interested in playing a Magus, however his character concept involves being a sword-and-board fighter that has a small emphasis on arcane magic. I'd origianlly recommended the Skirnir, but he felt like it just gave up too much of the magus's key abilities for the ability to use a shield; he also didn't like the "bonded shield" idea very much.
I'd really like to find a way for this character to work, but it just seems like the magus class was specifically designed to use only a single weapon. He brought up the idea of how a light shield may still allow him to cast a spell with his off hand, he'd just have to roll the arcane spell failure. Here's the rules he cited:
Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand.
He believes this means his shield arm is "free enough" to cast a spell with it, but my gut reaction is to say "you grip it with your hand" means that "your hand isn't free." At best, possibly using spell combat to fight with your sword normally, then switching it to your offhand to cast the spell, but this does seem to go against the intentions of how the ability should work. Really though, spell combat is almost an ancillary ability in his mind, he really just wants to not kill his fighting ability to pick up arcane magic and really liked the spellstrike ability.
What do you guys think? Is there a good way to build a magus or a fighter(or paladin or ranger)/magus that uses sword and board? All advice is welcome, but please no trash-talking sword and board. My friend is perfectly accepting of that it is sub-optimal and is more concerned with fitting the concept without making a character that is unplayable.
Paladins and clerics get away with it so I'm calling light shield good.
I would say no to light shield, but yes to buckler. The only real difference between the two is that you can shield bash with a light shield but not cast spells with it. Where as you can't shield bash with a buckler but you can cast spells with it.
A ring of force shield?
You want the Skirnir archetype from Ultimate Combat.
OP already mentioned he tried suggesting that to the player.
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So I have a player who's looking to join my game that's very interested in playing a Magus, however his character concept involves being a sword-and-board fighter that has a small emphasis on arcane magic. I'd origianlly recommended the Skirnir, but he felt like it just gave up too much of the magus's key abilities for the ability to use a shield; he also didn't like the "bonded shield" idea very much.
I'd really like to find a way for this character to work, but it just seems like the magus class was specifically designed to use only a single weapon. He brought up the idea of how a light shield may still allow him to cast a spell with his off hand, he'd just have to roll the arcane spell failure. Here's the rules he cited:
Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand.He believes this means his shield arm is "free enough" to cast a spell with it, but my gut reaction is to say "you grip it with your hand" means that "your hand isn't free." At best, possibly using spell combat to fight with your sword normally, then switching it to your offhand to cast the spell, but this does seem to go against the intentions of how the ability should work. Really though, spell combat is almost an ancillary ability in his mind, he really just wants to not kill his fighting ability to pick up arcane magic and really liked the spellstrike ability.
What do you guys think? Is there a good way to build a magus or a fighter(or paladin or ranger)/magus...
Here's your solution:
Have him take two levels of Alchemist. At second level, he chooses the vestigial arm discovery. He uses the vestigial arm to hold his shield.Benefit: The alchemist gains a new arm (left or right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing. The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb). The arm has its own “hand” and “ring” magic item slots (though the alchemist can still only wear two rings and two hand magic items at a time).
Now, he can carry a weapon in his right hand, in his vestigial arm he can carry the shield, and then he will still have a hand free to cast the spell. Win/win.
Heh, wonder if that'll impact his character concept.
Maybe I have another way:
The Spellblade ACF:
Force Athame (Sp): At 2nd level, a spellblade magus can sacrifice a prepared magus spell of 1st level or higher as a swift action to create a dagger of force in his off hand. The athame lasts for 1 minute or until dismissed, has an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to the level of the spell sacrificed (maximum +5), and is considered a weapon the spellblade is holding for purposes of his arcane pool feature (using the pool to add abilities to a held weapon applies to the magus's physical weapon and to the athame for no additional cost). The athame acts as a dagger, but the hand holding it is still considered free for the purpose of casting spells and delivering touch attacks. The magus can use the athame as if he were fighting with two weapons, or can use that hand to cast spells as part of the spell combat class ability (but not both in the same round). Attacks with the athame are force attacks and deal force damage. This ability replaces the spellstrike class feature.
So he would wield any shield in one hand and wield his force dagger in his other hand...
Of course a dagger is small and doesn't do much damage, but at least it could work?
I'd suggest the following:
1.) Scrap the Skirnir archetype.
2.) Give the magus proficiency with shields (except tower), and the ability to ignore arcane spell failure while wearing them.
3.) Apply the following house rule, revising Spell Combat:
4.) Allow the following Magus Arcana:
5.) Enjoy the new and improved Magus, fully capable of "Sword-and-Board" badassery.
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Maybe I have another way:
The Spellblade ACF:
Force Athame (Sp): At 2nd level, a spellblade magus can sacrifice a prepared magus spell of 1st level or higher as a swift action to create a dagger of force in his off hand. The athame lasts for 1 minute or until dismissed, has an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to the level of the spell sacrificed (maximum +5), and is considered a weapon the spellblade is holding for purposes of his arcane pool feature (using the pool to add abilities to a held weapon applies to the magus's physical weapon and to the athame for no additional cost). The athame acts as a dagger, but the hand holding it is still considered free for the purpose of casting spells and delivering touch attacks. The magus can use the athame as if he were fighting with two weapons, or can use that hand to cast spells as part of the spell combat class ability (but not both in the same round). Attacks with the athame are force attacks and deal force damage. This ability replaces the spellstrike class feature.
So he would wield any shield in one hand and wield his force dagger in his other hand...
Of course a dagger is small and doesn't do much damage, but at least it could work?
To take that further, you may be interested in the Eldritch Athame 3rd party Magus Arcana. That way, you can make it a Longsword, Rhoka, Scimitar, or whatever else you may want to use within the limits of the arcana.
That's exactly the way it was designed. There are certain outs given as archetypes. One thing you have to remember is that the magus has a built in two weapon fighting system which is spell combat. Which is balanced with his magical might. If he wants more martial ability than the reduced spell capacity is the price.Your player can have his sword and board, but he can't cast while he's doing so or even wielding the shield. He'll also have to take the shield proficiency feat or suffer the appropriate penalties as well.
Right, I get that, but the Skirnir archetype just gives up too much in order to have shield proficiency. There's just too many downsides to that archetype. Diminished spellcasting I understand fullwell. It's a bit high of a price to pay for shield proficiency, but a managable one nonetheless. Then you also lose Spell Combat, which is replaced with shield's arcane spell failure being removed. Losing that much to make up for a -1 check penalty and 5% spell failure is already feeling a bit heavy. But then you're required to take the Arcane Bond specifically with your shield. Some small advantages there, but then spellcasting pre-level 8 becomes an immense headache because of the downside of the bonded item. You have your sword in one hand, and want to cast a spell, so you move the sword to your offhand, cast the spell, then move the sword back to your on-hand. But, in that split-second that your sword in in your shield hand, you're no longer "wielding" the shield, so you suffer the penalty of requiring you to make a concentration roll. The only other option is to get a weapon cord and drop the weapon every time you want to cast a spell, and eat the swift action to retrieve it - something that's already at a premium for a magus.
However, at 8th level you FINALLY get Spell Combat and can cast with your shield hand, but by then, you've had 7 levels of being riddled with disadvantages. The archetype makes sense when you look at it as a whole and has some really neat abilities making it fairly well balanced against the base magus, but to be so crippled for such a large portion of your adventuring career just seems like a poor design flaw.
Why not play a cleric or inquisitor with the Magic Domain, and the take the birthmark trait? It's the flavor that counts, right?
IT is, but the cleric and inquisitor just don't get the spells he wants. He's actually looking for flashy, offensive spells, which are lacking in both those lists.
To take that further, you may be interested in the Eldritch Athame 3rd party Magus Arcana. That way, you can make it a Longsword, Rhoka, Scimitar, or whatever else you may want to use within the limits of the arcana.Maybe I have another way:
The Spellblade ACF:
Force Athame (Sp): At 2nd level, a spellblade magus can sacrifice a prepared magus spell of 1st level or higher as a swift action to create a dagger of force in his off hand. The athame lasts for 1 minute or until dismissed, has an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to the level of the spell sacrificed (maximum +5), and is considered a weapon the spellblade is holding for purposes of his arcane pool feature (using the pool to add abilities to a held weapon applies to the magus's physical weapon and to the athame for no additional cost). The athame acts as a dagger, but the hand holding it is still considered free for the purpose of casting spells and delivering touch attacks. The magus can use the athame as if he were fighting with two weapons, or can use that hand to cast spells as part of the spell combat class ability (but not both in the same round). Attacks with the athame are force attacks and deal force damage. This ability replaces the spellstrike class feature.
So he would wield any shield in one hand and wield his force dagger in his other hand...
Of course a dagger is small and doesn't do much damage, but at least it could work?
I'll talk to him about this and see what he thinks. Mechanically it sounds like it works great, but I'm wondering if the "force weapon" might not fit his concept. Even if he doesn't, I like that idea and will likely use it as an NPC in the future.
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Why not play a cleric or inquisitor with the Magic Domain, and the take the birthmark trait? It's the flavor that counts, right?IT is, but the cleric and inquisitor just don't get the spells he wants. He's actually looking for flashy, offensive spells, which are lacking in both those lists.
I'll talk to him about this and see what he...To take that further, you may be interested in the Eldritch Athame 3rd party Magus Arcana. That way, you can make it a Longsword, Rhoka, Scimitar, or whatever else you may want to use within the limits of the arcana.Maybe I have another way:
The Spellblade ACF:
Force Athame (Sp): At 2nd level, a spellblade magus can sacrifice a prepared magus spell of 1st level or higher as a swift action to create a dagger of force in his off hand. The athame lasts for 1 minute or until dismissed, has an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls equal to the level of the spell sacrificed (maximum +5), and is considered a weapon the spellblade is holding for purposes of his arcane pool feature (using the pool to add abilities to a held weapon applies to the magus's physical weapon and to the athame for no additional cost). The athame acts as a dagger, but the hand holding it is still considered free for the purpose of casting spells and delivering touch attacks. The magus can use the athame as if he were fighting with two weapons, or can use that hand to cast spells as part of the spell combat class ability (but not both in the same round). Attacks with the athame are force attacks and deal force damage. This ability replaces the spellstrike class feature.
So he would wield any shield in one hand and wield his force dagger in his other hand...
Of course a dagger is small and doesn't do much damage, but at least it could work?
The problem you'll likely have with that is that it's a swift action to form the Athame itself, and another swift action to change the weapon type. Personally, as a DM, I would allow both as a swift action, as you have to give up both a spell and an Arcane pool point, but that's not how it works RAW.
The problem you'll likely have with that is that it's a swift action to form the Athame itself, and another swift action to change the weapon type. Personally, as a DM, I would allow both as a swift action, as you have to give up both a spell and an Arcane pool point, but that's not how it works RAW.
I'd definitely consider that, I'll check with him and see what he thinks.
A Hexcrafter Magus can take the Prehensile hair hex to hold his shield during spell combat.
In theory, couldn't the prehensile hair be used as the "free hand" required to cast spells?
You know, a bard may be a better fit.
Actually, I'm debating just suggesting he go fighter(or ranger)/wizard(or witch)/eldritch knight.
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In theory, couldn't the prehensile hair be used as the "free hand" required to cast spells?
I don't think the prehensile hair can do the complex gestures required for somatic components.
Prehensile Hair (Su): The witch can instantly cause her hair (or even her eyebrows) to grow up to 10 feet long or to shrink to its normal length, and can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score. Her hair has reach 10 feet, and she can use it as a secondary natural attack that deals 1d3 points of damage (1d2 for a Small witch). Her hair can manipulate objects (but not weapons) as dexterously as a human hand. The hair cannot be sundered or attacked as a separate creature. Pieces cut from the witch’s elongated hair shrink away to nothing. Using her hair does not harm the witch’s head or neck, even if she lifts something heavy with it. The witch can manipulate her hair a number of minutes each day equal to her level; these minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. A typical male witch with this hex can also manipulate his beard, moustache, or eyebrows.
Although reading it now I guess there's no technical reason it wouldn't work. Sounds like the Prehensile Hair Hexcrafter is your most solid way to go.
+1 for the Arcane Duelist bard. While there aren't THAT many flashy bard spells, there should be enough, especially with UMD wands.
And if you're not too hard on the RAW, allowing him to gain a few not-too-good blasts like Acid Arrow, Lightning Bolt and so on.
I second the ring of force shield
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There is a 3rdPP Arcana called Shield Caster, its up on the D20PFSRD. It allows the use of shields, only downside is you cant get it till Medium Armour.
There are arcana in the Ultimate Options: New Magus Arcana called Enrune Shield that allow a magus to spend one arcane point to allow them to cast spells through their shield for different periods of time. You would have to be proficient in shields, though.
Check out the Quickdraw Shield.
Quickdraw Shield (Light Wooden or Steel).
If he takes Quickdraw he can don or put away the shield as a free action. So put the shield up (Free action), Full attack, Pull the shield back out (Free action).
Problem Solved.