Are elementals living?

[Kiinyan]

In the PFS scenario

Below the Silver Tarn:

there is a half-fiend water elemental. The half-fiend template specifies a living creature.

Is an elemental, who has no anatomy and is made of pure air, earth, fire, or water, considered living?

[BlueAria]

I would say if you can kill it its alive, if you break it its a construct, if you have to kill it again its undead.

That's just off the top of my head thought I have no clue if there are rules on the matter

[Drejk]

In PF and D&D since 3.0 a creature is living if it is powered by positive energy (which is the case for elementals) and has Constitution score. Generally, having Constitution score is more important as there are rare creatures that are alive but have negative energy affinity.

[Kiinyan]

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

EDIT: Drejk, I just looked and while channel specifically states "either undead or living"(CR41) on CR 123 the feat elemental channel specifically states that "instead of its normal effect, you can choose to have your ability to channel energy harm or heal outsiders of your chosen elemental type." that said, if positive channel heals all living creatures, yet you need a special feat to separately heal elementals, are they living?

EDIT 2: Do elementals drop at 0 or in the negatives?

[Drejk]

Kiinyan wrote:

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

EDIT: Drejk, I just looked and while channel specifically states "either undead or living"(CR41) on CR 123 the feat elemental channel specifically states that "instead of its normal effect, you can choose to have your ability to channel energy harm or heal outsiders of your chosen elemental type." that said, if positive channel heals all living creatures, yet you need a special feat to separately heal elementals, are they living?

You don't need Elemental Channel to affect elementals with channel energy - they are affected normally. The feat adds a new option for the cleric while channeling instead: it allows limiting channel energy effects to elementals of one subtype only and it allows Cleric to either heal or harm them, regardless of the type of his channeled energy.

[Starglim]

Kiinyan wrote:

In the PFS scenario ***Spoiler omitted***. Is an elemental, who has no anatomy and is made of pure air, earth, fire, or water, considered living?

The wizard necromancer school ability Life Sight, p. 82, suggests that a living creature most likely is any creature except a construct or undead, though the wording leaves open the possibility of other, undefined, creatures that are neither living nor undead. I doubt that was meant to apply to a well-known group of creatures that the Core Rulebook mentions in many other places.

The outsider type reads in part "Unlike most living creatures..." (Bestiary p. 309). I suppose that doesn't prove that all outsiders are living creatures - it could still be a comparison "Unlike this other random group of things..." The elemental subtype doesn't specify anywhere that they aren't.

[Ross Byers]

I added a spoiler tag.

[Stynkk]

They are alive.

Drejk wrote:

You don't need Elemental Channel to affect elementals with channel energy - they are affected normally. The feat adds a new option for the cleric while channeling instead: it allows limiting channel energy effects to elementals of one subtype only and it allows Cleric to either heal or harm them, regardless of the type of his channeled energy.

I agree with the above.

[King of Vrock]

No elementals are not living creatures... see the antilife shell spell.

PRD wrote:

Antilife Shell

School abjuration; Level cleric 6, druid 6

Components V, S, DF

Casting Time 1 round

Range 10 ft.

Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you

Duration 1 min./level (D)

Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes

You bring into being a mobile, hemispherical energy field that prevents the entrance of most types of living creatures.

The effect hedges out animals, aberrations, dragons, fey, giants, humanoids, magical beasts, monstrous humanoids, oozes, plants, and vermin, but not constructs, elementals, outsiders, or undead.

This spell may be used only defensively, not aggressively. Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier.

--ElectroVrock Therapy

[Stynkk]

King of Vrock wrote:

No elementals are not living creatures... see the antilife shell spell.

Can't agree with this...

Anti-life Shell: You bring into being a mobile, hemispherical energy field that prevents the entrance of most types of living creatures.

Most... living creatures. Outsiders are living... elementals are outsiders..

Bestiary - Creature Types - Outsider Creature Type wrote:

Unlike most living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit.

[Evil Genius Prime]

I've always considered Elementals to be alive. As to whether or not they have a soul is another matter. When an elemental dies doesn't it's elemental stuff/body/energy just discorporate and find it's way back to the elemental plane of origin?

[Some call me Tim]

I would have said they are not alive. My reasoning was that there are three types of creatures that don't breathe, eat, or sleep--constructs, undead, and elementals. The first two are undoubtedly non-living, so why would the last be alive.

However, reading the bestiary text of the elementals reveals:

"Air elementals are fast, flying creatures made of living air."
"Earth elementals are plodding, stubborn creatures made of living stone or earth."
"Fire elementals are quick, cruel creatures of living flame."
"Water elementals are patient, relentless creatures made of living fresh or salt water."

Pretty hard to dispute that.

[Evil Genius Prime]

Some call me Tim wrote:

However, reading the bestiary text of the elementals reveals:

"Air elementals are fast, flying creatures made of living air."
"Earth elementals are plodding, stubborn creatures made of living stone or earth."
"Fire elementals are quick, cruel creatures of living flame."
"Water elementals are patient, relentless creatures made of living fresh or salt water."

Pretty hard to dispute that.

Indeed. According to the Bestiaries, they are alive.

[Glutton]

I finger of death them in DDO, they gotta be alive!

[Ashiel]

They have a Constitution score. You cannot get more alive than that.

[Drejk]

Ashiel wrote:

They have a Constitution score. You cannot get more alive than that.

Actually you can. Just have to get more Constitution.

[Ironballs]

They are alive.

The fact that their very being is very diffrent then the 'normal' biological creatures you know - doesn't mean it isn't alive.

"it's a life form and it has intelligence!" (StarTrek phrase :) )

You don't need a soul to be alive - for that matter angels, demons, and other outsider don't have a soul of their own, as their an aspect of the plane that created them - does that mean their not alive?

Plant creature - not flesh and blood - and has a ton of immunities - but still -they're considered alive.

Construct? you also have a Warforged creature, which by it's very definition is 'Living construct'.

You just need to expand your notion of the concept 'alive'.