This came up in another thread and I am curious about everyone's thoughts.
If you can't read the language that the runes are written in, can you be hit by the rune spell?
Does this make illiterate barbarians immune to all rune spells?
Are there any rulings on this or is this so obscure that nobody has ever asked it?
If you're playing barbarians by RAW, they are no longer illiterate.
If you're playing barbarians by RAW, they are no longer illiterate.
as far as i know the true primitive archetype is, and this is actually a good question, im curious what the answer is.
If you can't read the language that the runes are written in, can you be hit by the rune spell?
Does this make illiterate barbarians immune to all rune spells?
Assuming Explosive Runes, nothing in the spell indicates that they have to be successfully read.
The description says "You trace mystic runes upon a book, map, scroll, or similar object bearing written information." So if this was cast on a map, I would rule that an illiterate barbarian that examined the map would indeed set it off. He attempted to 'read' the map. Boom. If the barbarian merely glances at a scroll, then hands it to mage and say "Og no understand squiggly lines you look." I'd say he didn't actually try to read it.
Now the oft cited corollary to this is I cast explosive runes on a sheet of paper then in the middle of battle I show it to someone. Does it go boom? I would rule, no, as you were unlikely to try to read a sign someone held up in front of you while you're trying to kill each other. Curiosity would probably get them after the battle.
Are there any rulings on this or is this so obscure that nobody has ever asked it?
No, its one of those silly questions people pose from time to time that aren't definitively answered in the rules, but are so minor as not to be worthy of any official response.
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1)to look at carefully so as to understand the meaning of (something written, printed, ect.
2)To have such Knowledge as to understand
3)to apprehend the meaning of (signs, characters, etc.) otherwise than with the eyes, as by means of the fingers
4)to apprehend or interpret the meaning of (gestures, movements, signals, or the like
Looks like a 50/50 as far as the definition of read goes if attemting to read or understanding would set it off.
In the games I play attempting to understand would set it off.
So if you see it and are like "whats here be that thing?" then BOOM!
But if you see it and are like "This are words I ain't don't be doing that" then your probably cool, until the wizards taks that scroll from you.
The answer is yes unless the effect of the rune comes under the "language-dependent" category.
Now to up the ante. If I am a caster, and I pick up the scroll with explosive runes on them can I recognize the shape of the runes and see that it is a dangerous spell. Much in the same way that you recognize the Burger King sign as you drive by without actually reading the sign.
By that logic only those who can read can get hit by exploding runes, and only those who aren't intelligent enough to recognize the pattern of the runes.
So your only targets for exploding runes are those who can speak the language the magic is written in (Arguably Draconic)without recognizing the pattern of the spell of the exploding runes.
Namely highly literate non-magical beings.
This seems so utterly specific that the spell is useless, unless you dispell it.
The answer is yes unless the effect of the rune comes under the "language-dependent" category.Now to up the ante. If I am a caster, and I pick up the scroll with explosive runes on them can I recognize the shape of the runes and see that it is a dangerous spell. Much in the same way that you recognize the Burger King sign as you drive by without actually reading the sign.
By that logic only those who can read can get hit by exploding runes, and only those who aren't intelligent enough to recognize the pattern of the runes.
So your only targets for exploding runes are those who can speak the language the magic is written in (Arguably Draconic)without recognizing the pattern of the spell of the exploding runes.
Namely highly literate non-magical beings.
This seems so utterly specific that the spell is useless, unless you dispell it.
I would argue that you don't have to understand what's written to read it.
I would argue that you don't have to understand what's written to read it.
You could argue that I suppose. Spanish uses many of the same letter symbols as English. The person may think they can read it, but they will have no idea that the "ll" is considered to be a single entity. So yes, to read something you absolutely have to understand it, at least if you are looking at different languages.
Technically I could read brail, as dot dot dot empty line dot dot dot. But I would have no idea what it was trying to say, and at a glance I might not even know it to be writing, if I didn't know that Brail existed.
If you saw it on a building, would you recognize Morse code or would you just think that someone was making a design?
Arguably, the runes don't state what language they are in. Runes are just lines arranged into shapes, so merely looking at them while thinking they have meaning is enough to trigger the spell.
To not trigger the spell, make your perception check of DC 28 to recognize they are a trap (anyone can spot magic traps, only those with trapfinding can disable them). If you don't make the check, you didn't realize they were a trap before they blew up. If you make the check, then you realize its a trap and can avoid setting it off.
So no, I don't think being illiterate saves you from the damage if you say you "look at the map." That would be enough to set it off assuming you failed your perception check.
...“reading” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning.
You don't need to be able to read, but you DO have to be actively attempting to identify it or fathom it's meaning in some way. In short, close and deliberate inspection.
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...“reading” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning.You don't need to be able to read, but you DO have to be actively attempting to identify it or fathom it's meaning in some way. In short, close and deliberate inspection.
Does this stop this trick?
"Explosive runes on 1' square pieces of paper, scattered, confetti like around town! Great fun for a disgruntled wizard. "
Does looking down at the paper, to see what is on it trigger it? Or do you have to actually stop and try to read the text on it?
Looking at piece of paper and Perception check not high enough to spot trap: "Its a piece of paper with writing on it"
Looking at piece of paper and Perception check high enough to spot trap: "Its a piece of paper with a magical trap on it"
If you don't see the trap, and say "What does the paper say?" then BOOM.
...“reading” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning.You don't need to be able to read, but you DO have to be actively attempting to identify it or fathom it's meaning in some way. In short, close and deliberate inspection.Does this stop this trick?
"Explosive runes on 1' square pieces of paper, scattered, confetti like around town! Great fun for a disgruntled wizard. "
Does looking down at the paper, to see what is on it trigger it? Or do you have to actually stop and try to read the text on it?
If you are trying to see what is on it, it sure sounds to me like you are trying to identify it. You already know something is on it. By your own words, you are stopping to see WHAT it is.
What if you write the explosive rune on, say, presentation sized foam-core and proceed to wave it around from behind the front lines? Does it blow up whoever reads it, or just the guy holding the sign (when somebody else reads it)?
Well, as I said above, most people are unlikely to stop in the middle of a battle to figure out what the sign said, so it probably won't go boom. Even if they did only the idiot holding the sign would blow up (and possibly damage anyone within 10 ft). Not exactly a strong tactic choice. You'd be better off running up to the enemy and reading it for them.
Now, if some enterprising characters used a spyglass to observe explosive runes from a distance they would explode however the reader would be undamaged because they are not "next to the explosive runes."
I think I'm going to have to have some goblins set up such a trap. The party opens the door and sees a couple of scrolls tacked to the wall. If the party reads them, BOOM! If not have a goblin with a spyglass read them aloud. BOOM! Hilarity ensues.
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I think I'm going to have to have some goblins set up such a trap. The party opens the door and sees a couple of scrolls tacked to the wall. If the party reads them, BOOM! If not have a goblin with a spyglass read them aloud. BOOM! Hilarity ensues.
Blasphemy! Goblins would not read! :P
but this would make great Kobold trap material! I may have to yoink that for one of my own games, if you do not mind.
I think I'm going to have to have some goblins set up such a trap. The party opens the door and sees a couple of scrolls tacked to the wall. If the party reads them, BOOM! If not have a goblin with a spyglass read them aloud. BOOM! Hilarity ensues.
That would be really weird if the game is set in Golarion as standard PF Goblins universally hold a strong hatred of written language believing them to steal words from your head and are typically functionally illiterate.
Granted they probably do like explosions, though.
That would be really weird if the game is set in Golarion as standard PF Goblins universally hold a strong hatred of written language believing them to steal words from your head and are typically functionally illiterate.
How do you all think they developed their hatred of the written word? Personally, I suspect a disgruntled goblin sorcerer with explosive runes working in a fortune cookie factory.
Exploding rune fortune cookies.........Toilet paper.........place it in a rival's spell book......on a loot bag.......On a low hanging tavern sign.......On a customer's receipt........Write it on the ceiling......Attach a scroll of it to a message arrow.......drop it as a flier as you fly over an enemy city.........so many uses for such a simple spell...... If you have downtime there is no better spell.
................MAXIMIZE EXPLODING RUNES..........EXTEND SPELL Exploding runes........Empower Spell Exploding runes..............Sheer awesomeness.
Unless the DM suddenly decides that the illiterate barbarian who can read and understand what a tavern sign is can't read your symbolic runes.
Er, I actually have a system with my GM in Kingmaker. He has basically turned the entire population against me (or the commoners anyway), so I let him know that in my downtime, I cast Explosive Runes on little pieces of parchment. I have a growing hoard of parchment roughly the size of a sticky note. Should I ever be forced from the city or attacked by the commoners, torch and pitchfork mob for example, then I plan on flying over the city and dropping out all the notes over the town during the next festival.
If this happens, I'll retire my character and play something else. I've gotten tired of him insisting that every commoner pulls their children inside, closes their door, runs and hide, etc. when the "Evil Necromancer" comes down the street. Especially since all anyone has seen me do is shoot fireballs, scorching rays, burning hands, magic missile, etc. He's a universalist, and the only necromancy spells he casts is Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Exhaustion, and none of the commoners would be able to know they are Necromancy spells.