Zen Archer Monk with Wizard Dip?


Advice


What do you think of taking one level of wizard as a Zen Archer monk? I'm thinking a dwarf zen archer monk with the steel soul feat (+4 saves) plus a void elementalist (+2 saves) would make it almost impossible for me to fail saves. If I give myself a 12 int, I can have four spells, which I can use for mage armor and shield (putting my AC into the stratosphere) plus gravity bow (pumping my damage to 2d6).

Does that offset the penalties for losing a level of monk? If so, what level would you do it at? I'm starting at level 2, but can take the level of wizard whenever.

Also, I'm not sure if the void elementalist is allowed. If not, what do you think about a Transmutation specialist. I could get +1 to one score and the same spells above. Still worth it?

Scarab Sages

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I would consider taking a dip in to Empyreal Bloodline sorcerer instead. Casting attribute is Wisdom so there is more synergy with monk.

Sovereign Court

druid/cleric is also a good choice as well for spellcaster dip w/ Wis synergy.


Depending on your DM's view of ammunition abundant ammo is another good spell you can have.

I think the Dip is worth it more for the spells you will have access to than the increased saves. In my experience a PC who even moderately focuses on his saving throw generally don't have a great chance to fail (unless the DM pumps the DC).


Nezthalak wrote:
druid/cleric is also a good choice as well for spellcaster dip w/ Wis synergy.

I don't plan on advancing any further than one level in the spellcasting class, so bonus spells beyond first don't matter to me. Also, all the spells I want (gravity bow, mage armor, shield) are personal, so DCs don't matter to me. And the specialist bonuses (either +2 to saves or +1 to a dex, con, or str) I get with just one level. I basically want to be an archer that can put out high damage while being as invulnerable as possible.


Don't forget the dwarven Zest for Battle trait; another +1 on most saves, for a total of +5.


Zen Archer does a good job by itself of making one invulnerable by having great saves.

One rule of thumb that I always follow is this: Don't spend things you cannot buy for things that you can.

You can buy wands. You can even buy your level ranks in UMD. You can't buy progression in Levels of Monk, and access to your higher level abilities as a monk. Stick with monk and buy the spells you need.


Oterisk wrote:

Zen Archer does a good job by itself of making one invulnerable by having great saves.

One rule of thumb that I always follow is this: Don't spend things you cannot buy for things that you can.

You can buy wands. You can even buy your level ranks in UMD. You can't buy progression in Levels of Monk, and access to your higher level abilities as a monk. Stick with monk and buy the spells you need.

This is very true. Wand DC is 20. Take Dangerously Curious trait and have cha 10 (actually kinda painful to make it that high...) and keep ranks maxed and you'll have 4 + your level bonus in it. I would dump cha to 7, play a Half-Elf w/ Skill Focus (UMD) and the trait, and just deal with the failure chance until 10th level, where it should be nigh automatic (10 ranks +6 feat +1 trait +3 class skill bonus -2 cha = +18, you need a +19 for autosuccess).


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Oterisk wrote:

Zen Archer does a good job by itself of making one invulnerable by having great saves.

One rule of thumb that I always follow is this: Don't spend things you cannot buy for things that you can.

You can buy wands. You can even buy your level ranks in UMD. You can't buy progression in Levels of Monk, and access to your higher level abilities as a monk. Stick with monk and buy the spells you need.

This is very true. Wand DC is 20. Take Dangerously Curious trait and have cha 10 (actually kinda painful to make it that high...) and keep ranks maxed and you'll have 4 + your level bonus in it. I would dump cha to 7, play a Half-Elf w/ Skill Focus (UMD) and the trait, and just deal with the failure chance until 10th level, where it should be nigh automatic (10 ranks +6 feat +1 trait +3 class skill bonus -2 cha = +18, you need a +19 for autosuccess).

But, if I go half-elf, I lose out on the +4 saves from being a dwarf that I really wanted. Also, the characters are going to progress slowly, so it will be a long time before I get to 10th level. For levels 1-9, I'm looking at up to a 70% chance of not being able to use the wand.

No one thinks the pre-fight buff of +8 AC and damage from 1d8->2d6 is worth the one level delay in progression. As well as either another +2 to saves or +1 to a physical stat. I realize it would be better after 6th or 8th level, but again the progression is slow and I wouldn't want to wait that long.


I don't value pre-fight buffing much. Probably because my GM likes to keep me on my toes, and I only get one round if I am lucky. Of course, your mileage may vary.

If you have a wizard buddy, I would buy a Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism Ioun Stone or two and have him cast the spells you need in them. They can be stored until you need them, so he doesn't have to do it every day.

As for progression, delaying levels is even worse for slow progression because you have to wait even longer for your good stuff to happen. Ki points are better than spells for you, and delaying your levels slows down the number of Ki points you get per day. Your bonus feats at 6 and 10 become 7 and 11, your BAB suffers meaning you will hit less.

Of course if you just want the flavor of it and you find that you are already outshining your party members, feel free. The Zen Archer is a very powerful Archetype. I'm currently running an 18th level one and he does just fine. He is human and still only usually misses saves on a 1 or 2. I really don't think you will have a problem there.

Anyway, this is probably better advice than I can give you right now, I found it very informative.

Sovereign Court

For Mage Armor, you barely need any UMD. All you have to do is roll a ~16 or above before you roll a 1 - you get as many tries as you need. Alternately, hand it to a wizard and have them buff you. Shield and Gravity Bow are more tricky since they have a much shorter duration, but tbh, it's probably not worth giving up a level in Monk for them.

Scarab Sages

I play a dwarf Zen Archer, 25-point build, currently level 8. I have seldom cared about my AC, because the Zen Archer is usually well out of the fray, peppering the bad guys with arrows from afar. The one spell I would wish for is Abundant Ammunition. When I take damage, AC seldom matters; I am usually the victim of area-effect spells. I usually take half damage because I make my saving throw.
If you were playing a melee monk, then I would recommend Empyreal Sorcerer for the spells and the ability to use arcane wands without ever needing to make a UMD check.
In any case, take Improved Precise Shot as your sixth-level bonus feat! Being able to ignore most cover and shoot into melee without penalty is worth more than any other ability I have.

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