Hello all,
I've been doing some research into Natural Attacks, and I understand the whole Primary / Secondary issue - however:
What would occur if a character who (in this case, an Alchemist) has several Primary attacks (via Feral Mutagen) Claw, Claw, Bite - but then adds additional attacks via Barbarian (Fiendist Totem, Gore)?
It's listed that the gore attack is a primary natural attack but becomes secondary if the character uses weapons (in which then becomes secondary, as per usual) - I'm taking this to assume manufactured weapons, because stacking Natural Attacks is the only way to gain additional attacks in Pathfinder (for those pursuing natural attacks), as there is no iterative attacks (yet?).
SO: to boil it all down - Does the addition of a Gore attack to an already existent sequence of Natural Attacks (claw, claw, bite) make it a Primary or Secondary Attack?
The Natural Attack Chart lists Gore as a Primary - so I'd wager that all four would stack as Primary Attacks at full BAB and Str mod.
Chart: http://www.pathfinderreference.com/misc/universal_monster_rules.htm#natural -attacks
Would love some feedback!
Thanks
Correct, all 4 (claw, claw, bite, gore) would be primary natural attacks. The "becomes secondary if the person uses weapons" refers to manufactured weapons like you though.
I'm not sure... because to me, you can only have ONE primary natural attack, or set of primary natural attacks of the same type, like 2 claws or 8 tentacles, and the rest becomes secondary.
I'm pretty sure though that you can alter the status of each attack, like for one round having the bite as primary and the next round having the gore as primary.
JiCi: In Pathfinder, natural attacks are defined as being either primary or secondary, depending on what type of attack it is. A monster with only one form of natural attack counts it as primary, even if it would normally be secondary. Other exceptions to the general rule will be specified in the monster's statblock.
Primary: Bite, claw, gore, slam, sting, talons.
Secondary: Hoof, tentacle, wing, pincers, tail slap, other.
JiCi wrote: I'm not sure... because to me, you can only have ONE primary natural attack, or set of primary natural attacks of the same type, like 2 claws or 8 tentacles, and the rest becomes secondary.
I'm pretty sure though that you can alter the status of each attack, like for one round having the bite as primary and the next round having the gore as primary.
That is what's sort of confusing: Feral Mutagen specifically gives all three (claw, claw, bite) as Primary with full BAB and strength. The confusing part is whether or not the Gore becomes secondary when it's added to the routine.
In a related note: Is it worth a two level dip into Barbarian for the Gore attack and strength boost (using Urban Barbarian so I can still use wands/extracts)? Or to continue Alchemist for Master Chymist?
Build is going to be a primary damage - High strength, medium dex/con and enough INT for extracts. Feral Mutagen, power attack, etc.
Damage wise - he should be racking it up pretty high, as all the attacks get full strength, full BAB and full Power Attack bonuses. The problem will be nearing endgame when he'll need more attacks to even out his damage, ergo the Gore.
Master Chymist has some nice damage boosts, but Alchemist gets the near day long Mutagen at 14...
Thoughts?
Are wrote: JiCi: In Pathfinder, natural attacks are defined as being either primary or secondary, depending on what type of attack it is. A monster with only one form of natural attack counts it as primary, even if it would normally be secondary. Other exceptions to the general rule will be specified in the monster's statblock.
Primary: Bite, claw, gore, slam, sting, talons.
Secondary: Hoof, tentacle, wing, pincers, tail slap, other.
(Wow, I really assumed too much from the old 3.5 system... I need to recheck the entries...)
Are is right regarding Primary/Secondary. Its in the rules.
I consider the Gore attack worthwhile, but it runs into to problems with limited rounds of rage, so it's more of a nova than a constant boon
Master Chymist has some really nice benefits if you're running feral mutagen.
-multiple, spontaneous, uses of mutate that can be any bonus you desire(very flexible)
-mutate duration stacks your alch/MC levels (and there's always
Extended Mutagen (Ex): wrote: The duration of the master chymist’s mutation is doubled. to make it better
If you pick an archetype that swaps persistent mutagen, that also makes MC more appealing.
My thoughts on the matter of "Picking barbarian still needs more rounds of rage", is that eventually (hopefully) he can pick up the feat that grants more rounds of rage the more he kills, as well as Elemental Kin which gives him more rounds every time he'd take 3 or more points of elemental damage...
This hopefully would keep the warmachine chugging long enough to mow through several armies...
But those three levels do hurt a lot in not getting Master Chymist and higher level extracts faster.
Does the manufactured weapons also include unarmed strikes?
Xedrek wrote: Does the manufactured weapons also include unarmed strikes? Typically anything that allows iterative attacks will count under manufactured weapons (even if it's not technically).
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