Would like to ask for some Wizard feat / build suggestions.


Advice


Group I am in is starting Kingmaker here in a week or so and Im going to be playing my first wizard. Stats were rolled, and can still be reassigned.

17
16
15
14
13
10.

Those are pretty good rolls all things considered. Was leaning towards elf, so final stats would go like this

Str- 10
Dex- 18 (+2 rac)
Con- 13 (-2 rac)
Wis- 13
Int- 19 (+2 rac)
Cha- 14

Typically Charisma would be the 10, but my other three teammates are a human Ranger, human monk, and a homebrew fighter. Average Cha is a 7. If they want to let the wizard do the talking, we might be in for some interesting social encounters.

My concept for the character is to be Knowledge expert, Swiss army knife, Crafter, and Counter-speller. Far as combat damage I figure I'll just let the melee people do what they do and always be ready with an ace in the hole.

Wizard school I am going for the Arcanamirium Crafter Universalist, one for the free feat, two I just had a hard time picking opposing schools. I know the lack of extra spell slot might hurt, but i hope to augment some of that with making scrolls.

DM is letting me forgo two traits in lieu of extra 1st level feat. I went as far breadth of Experience and the Cypher Magic from the Inner Sea Guide. The experience lets me play the knowledge dump i enjoy playing, where as the Cypher Magic goes hand in hand with my plan of being a walking library of scrolls...

Still none of this is set in stone and would like to hear some suggestions critiques. Here is my current out look for feats

1- 1st level
1- DM kindness
3- 3rd level,
3- School power
5- 5th level
5- bonus feat.

6 feats before lvl 6 isn't too bad, but I still don't want to waste one.

thanks in advance.


First off, there really is no reason to play a generalist wizard in pathfinder, That extra feat is in no way worth the bonus spells.

For kingmaker I would go conjurer or transmuter, possibly enchanter, evoker, abjurer or necromancer.

Congrats on the awesome stats and not dumping charisma. In kingmaker a little generalization goes a long way and there are no dump stats, charisma especially. It is very possible you will end up king because the rest of your party are a bunch of unlikable people.

For your low levels I would go with flat bonus feats like toughness, improved initiative and Combat casting, you will never regret surviving an arrow to the knee or acting before everyone else.

By third level you should be a competent equestrian, being able to ride effectively makes the overland travel much easier and phantom steed is awesome.

With the time between modules I recommend a craft feat, craft misc is the best in my opinion but that is a highly personal choice.

I'd go something like this:

wiz 1: Improved Init
Wiz 2:
Wiz 3: Toughness
Wiz 4: Int
Wiz 5: Craft Misc Shiny, Extra Traits (look for fort, init and leadership boosts, but whatever strikes your fancy really.

After 5th level you can look into metamagic and other cool things.

Here is my Kingmaker Wizard. I'm going Mystic Theurge and aiming for the throne.


I'd recommend going for the scrollmaster archtype, a free weapon made from any scroll, that can have reach and is automatically magical and can have special abilities, a shield which gets better the higher level spell on the scroll with no arcane failure and free enhancement bonus.

The best bit is scrolls act like staves when you use them which is better than a feat at level 10.

I'd go either abjurer, conjurer, diviner or transmuter. Opposition schools should be evocation, enchantment or necromancy depending on how you play. Enchantment is handy in kingmaker but its something you can plan to use so giving up two slots for a spell isn't so bad, i'd drop evocation as well and make a few scrolls of evocation spells since you use your int mod and caster level with scrollmaster anyway.

Good luck and hope it helps.

Silver Crusade

Starting with a Con of 13 as a wizard is not a very good idea. Having a 18 Dex dose little to nothing for you. Changing the starting stats of Con and Dex will help you out allot.

To be effective at high level play. You have to start preparing at level 1. Spell DC and spell resistance are your two biggest problems at high level. Start dealing with them early. To stop the problem before it starts.
Spell Focus ( Enchantment / Transmutation )
Greater Spell Focus ( Enchantment / Transmutation )
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration

My other suggestion is play a Witch. Your other party members are Ranger(Cure Light Wounds: Wand), Monk, and Fighter. That leaves the party with only a ranger that can use a wand of cure light wounds. There are ways to make this work with a Wizard. The witch has the spells you want and has the cure spells for wands. Along with Hexes that add more then most of the school ability's of wizards. There feet selection is almost the same. Witches just get more over all versatility then wizards for the role that is open.

Wizard, or Witch
1st Improved Initiative
3rd Spell Focus Enchantment
5th Spell Focus Transmutation
7th Greater Spell Focus Enchantment
9th Greater spell Focus Transmutation
11th Persistent Spell
13th (Wizard)Greater (Witch)Spell Penetration

Wizard Bonus
Th Intensified spell
10th Spell Penetration


Thanks for the quick responses!

I was looking at scrollmaster, and i did like the flavor of it. Arcane bond isn't too much of a price to give up either. Though I was looking at starting with a hawk. seemed a good fit in the wilderness. Then Improved Familiar at 7.

There is a good chance I might be able to overcome my "But I want to cast All the Magic!!" tantrum, but I don't see why I generalist can't be effective in Pathfinder.

The extra slot per spell level is nice, and I am already feeling the famine of only have 2 level 1 spell slots, but with enough time and resources to compile a scroll collection what other benefit is there? Some school abilities are cool but nothing world shattering.

My goal is to be extremely flexible both in and out of combat. Kingmaker seems to have enough downtime for this build to be possible.


Diviner foresight, conjuration teleportation, abjuration counterspell and transmutation enhancement are all very powerful, better than universalist and you get an extra spell.

Even if you bar a school you want to use you can make scrolls of that school in your downtime, and scrollmaster makes them as good as your actual spells. I'd go for diviner and ban evocation and enchantment tbh but generalist can still work anyway.


Chrisasaurus_Rex wrote:

There is a good chance I might be able to overcome my "But I want to cast All the Magic!!" tantrum, but I don't see why I generalist can't be effective in Pathfinder.

you can cast all the magic, it just makes two schools harder to cast, and there is wizard abilities to make your opposition schools not very opposition-y.


Just realized my post could be seen as intentionally being contrary. Not the case. All input is appreciated.

I thought about witch, if only for the mental image of taking the hex which would allow me to strangle two halflings* with my handlebar mustache.

*See also kobolds, children, gnomes...

OUr Ranger is in fact going skirmisher, so there won't be any cure help from her. But Our Dm likes to run tag along npcs, and already is making a heal bot to help with some of that.


Chrisasaurus_Rex wrote:
There is a good chance I might be able to overcome my "But I want to cast All the Magic!!" tantrum, but I don't see why I generalist can't be effective in Pathfinder.

But in Pathfinder opposed schools just take up 2 slots so you can cast everything.

If you really want to you can pick up opposition research and only have one opposed school.

Conjuration is my favourite school really. People recommend the Teleportation School a lot and D Door at level 1 is nice.

-----

Would you consider Human Sorcerer if you're going to be a face? You get a very decent amount of spells and I actually prefer them for battlefield controllers. Total flexibility in spell choice at a seconds notice just seems great to me.

Pick a trait to make Diplomacy a class skill. Sorted. :)


The plain fact is that the Universalist is underpowered. It's one of the rare bits of just plain bad design in Pathfinder. The fact that there are multiple workarounds against the opposition-school issue (scrolls, wands, potions, the opposition research feat, using your bonded item) is just salt in the wound.

That said, if you truly want to play a universalist, do it. It's underpowered, but I wouldn't say it's pathetically broken. And your stats look strong enough to carry you past a lot of problems. Good luck!

Doug M.


Chrisasaurus_Rex wrote:
Just realized my post could be seen as intentionally being contrary. Not the case. All input is appreciated.

All we are trying to say is if you do not live your life by the mandate of anonymous people on the internet then you will die alone and unloved in poverty.

Kingmakers need healing badly If everyone does not have a rank or several of healing. Without healing your team is many ways of being screwed. Pool together for healers kits, hire healers buy a crapload of potions and try not to die.


calagnar wrote:

Starting with a Con of 13 as a wizard is not a very good idea. Having a 18 Dex dose little to nothing for you.

+2 on AC and Reflex saves is pretty nice. As nice as +2 hp/level and +2 Fort? Well, maybe not. But... there are a lot of wonderful ranged touch attack spells. High Dex means you're more likely to hit with them.

Put another way, for an ordinary build he's probably right -- but there are several particular builds where you'd rather keep the high Dex. Ray monkey / ranged toucher is one. Abjurer is another. (An abjurer with decent Dex can pump his AC so high that he's very nearly invulnerable to melee attacks.)

Doug M.


I was thinking of the combination of Spell Focus (Conjuration) Augment Summoning combo for my two 5th level feats. Summon Monster 3 becomes available at that point, which I believe to be the first of the Good summons. Plus +1 Dc to save for spells like Stinking Pit, Black Tentacles, etc would be nice.

7th level I think will go to Improved Familiar, unless I change to the Scrollmaster archetype which I might still do. Though I already have named my hawk Haran...

So for feats I think I have the following plan, and I know its not very Optimized but it should still help on my way to become arcane demi-god.

1st- Cypher magic (flavor & +1 cl of scrolls is sweet)
1st( because dm let me trade in two traits for extra feat) - Breathe of Experience- +2 to all knowledge checks, all checks untrained. My INT is already high and being a knowledge dump screams wizard to me

3rd- Craft Wand - this I think helps make up for the lack of school slots with enough money.
3rd- (Arcanium Crafter) This is the one most in the air, but Spell Focus or maybe even Toppling Meta-magic

5th- Spell Focus Conjuration
5th- Augment Summoning

Then, if im still alive, who knows.


Sounds like a reasonable plan. One caution: be aware that Summoning takes a full round, so your creature appears the round /after/ you start summoning. (And you're vulnerable to spell disruption for a full round.)

That said, yes, at Summon Monster III the good stuff starts kicking in. And Summon Monster is also a great utility spell: summon an ape to climb a rope up a cliff, summon a dolphin or shark as an emergency flotation device, summon a Dire Bat to detect invisible creatures with its sonar or scout ahead in through the lightless caverns of a dark dungeon... lots of possibilities. And then tactically, summon creatures to disrupt enemy casters and to give your fighter and rogue flanking opportunities.

Let me throw in a word here for Superior Summons. Summoning 2-4 lower level monsters with this is situational, but when it works it's awesome.

cheers,

Doug M.


Good point about being vulnerable while summoning. I totally agree with you as far as the utility of Summon Monster. Plus they can be great mage killers too.

"Oh look a drow sorcerer is blasting up on the ramparts to busy to look up...and now a aurochs is dropping from the sky right above him.. Well, that takes care of that."

Hopefully the pure archer ranger and blood thirsty fighter draw more attention. In combat I see myself more of buff/debuff controller type. Never being flashy unless things go south. that and focus on enemy casters.

Question about ScrollMaster, is Weapon Finesse available for Scroll sword?
I think I remember reading that. Might be worth a feat to at least use the Dex to keep people off my squishy wizard.


you can use weapon finesse with a scrollsword because it acts like a short sword in all respects, so its a light weapon.

tbh i just love the idea of the scrollshield, you could get a scrollmaster foresight diviner to the point that dying in combat is very unlikely, 10+4(mage armour)+3(dex)+1(shield)=18ac at level 1, at level 6, 10+4(ma)+4(dex)+3(shield)+1(ring)+1(amulet)=23dex, touch ac is high due to force armour, always acts in suprise rounds and most likely goes first (+11 init modifier at level 6, and a possible +17 if you use anticipate peril before going into combat), roll a die at the start of the round and use it when you feel like.

I'd have a chat with the party as well and get everyone to pick up lookout at first or third level, stand next to each other, everyone makes a perception test, everyone fails but your spotting character, surprise round starts, everyone rolls initiative, you go first (+11 modifier) and because you could already act due to your diviner power you get to take a full rounds worth of actions, your rogue goes (huge dex score) and he gets a full rounds worth of actions since you could also act, the people who failed their perception checks then go because you acted and they have lookout. even if everyone fails perception they all still get to act in the surprise rounds due to your diviner being able to act and having lookout. Partial charges in the surprise round and then full attacks in the first full round can end encounters faster than control or buffing.

Sovereign Court

I have to take a minute here to plug the Fast Study feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wiz ard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries/fast-study).

It shortens your spell preparation time from 1 hour to 15 minutes for all your spells and 15 minutes to 1 minute for only a few. This basically makes your wizard into a spontaneous caster as long as you're not in the middle of combat. Really, outside of combat, when can't you take a single minute's pause? Just leave a few spell slots open and boom, one minute later you have any spell you know prepared and ready to go.

For my wizard, I also plan on taking the Craft Wondrous Items feat. Basically, you can think of it as doubling the number of wondrous items you're allowed, and you don't even have to track them down - you just need the proper spell and a high-enough spellcraft rank. (Though Crafter's Fortune, the 1st-level spell, helps with this.) Instead of buying one Pearl of Power, I'll make two myself. Instead of forking over 4000 gp for a headband of vast intelligence, I'll pay 60 gp to copy Fox's Cunning from some townie wizard's spellbook, pay 2000 to craft the headband (if your DM lets you take 10 on these, there's usually no risk involved - your spellcraft is easily a +13 by fifth level), and I'll use the leftover cash to craft a Necklace of Fireballs.

Eh? Eh?

PS: I'm also going to say you should definitely pick a favorite school. You can easily couch it in flavor, too - for example, my adventure-book inspired, latchkey kid wizard specializes in conjuration because he wanted to be able to summon friends; he opposes necromancy, because necromancers in the adventure books are evil, and enchantment, because he never had anyone to practice on. Sounds like your guy is an abjuration or divination specialist - shouldn't be hard to pick some opposition schools.


I don't get how being able to turn a piece of paper into a melee weapon is in any way a attractive option for a wizard. You are a glass cannon, let Boris the Strong and Fair get in close.


Chrisasaurus_Rex wrote:

There is a good chance I might be able to overcome my "But I want to cast All the Magic!!" tantrum, but I don't see why I generalist can't be effective in Pathfinder.

The extra slot per spell level is nice, and I am already feeling the famine of only have 2 level 1 spell slots, but with enough time and resources to compile a scroll collection what other benefit is there? Some school abilities are cool but nothing world shattering.

Pathfinder unlike 3.X allows you to still cast from your opposition. You just need to spend double the spell slots to do it. Here's where scrolls could come in handy, make a few of scrolls of the spells from your oppositions you'll think you might need on the fly and that issue bypasses itself nicely.

Note that an Elementalist wizard picks up bonus spells (abet from a so-so elemental list) and he only needs one opposition (the opposite of the element he picks). Further if you pick up opposition research at level 9 suddenly you have no opposition schools, bonus spells, and a few nifty specialist powers. For the price of a feat and avoiding the spell list of your opposition element for half under half your 20 level career.

If you go specialist and grab a bonded item at level 1 you're looking at 4 level 1 spells per day over 2 which is double your output. Bonded items aren't fantastic, but it's still double your castings per day at level 1.

You could also simply go and make divination, and X your opposition schools. Then get rid of X at level 9 with opposition research and use scrolls for the very limited times you need to cast a divination spell. I'd suggest an opposition school for X that doesn't have a lot of spells you couldn't live without at low levels or simply make due with a scroll.

If you're going the scrollmaster archetype both Loremaster and Cyphermage are fun thematic choices if your looking for a PrC.

With decent Charisma you could invest in a CHA boosting item past 7th level and pick up the Leadership feat if the DM allows it. You can then turn your Cohort into a Arcanamirium Crafter and have him/her dump their feats into item creation and make them stay at home and bang out magic items for the whole party. As they level encourage them to take spells that you don't have in your spell book let them study from yours for free to get spells needed to make the items you want and in turn pick up their own spell research to fill out your own spellbook. You do more productive stuff like adventuring, while your apprentice stays at home and crafts and studies.


Waltz wrote:


Pathfinder unlike 3.X allows you to still cast from your opposition. You just need to spend double the spell slots to do it. Here's where scrolls could come in handy, make a few of scrolls of the spells from your oppositions you'll think you might need on the fly and that issue bypasses itself nicely.

You can get around opposition schools with

-- scrolls
-- potions
-- wands
-- the Opposition Research feat (9th level and up)
-- bonded item (as long as a spell is in your book, the item doesn't care how many slots it uses)
-- getting Leadership and another caster (bit of a stretch but legit)

Given that there are so many different workarounds, and that some of them are so easy (really, just scribe some scrolls... problem mostly solved right there) it's quite hard to justify ever being a universalist in game terms.

But maybe you just want to play a universalist. That's cool. It's suboptimal, but it's not crippling. Go for it. (And then report back to the rest of us how it worked out.)

Doug M.


Human Admixture School Wizard; turn yourself into a damager/controller at the same time....

Str 10
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 19 (17+2)
Wis 13
Cha 15

FEATS

1st - Intense Spells, Versatile Evocation, Spell Focus (Evocation), Combat Casting, Arcane Bond (Wand)

2nd -

3rd - Flaring Spell (Metamagic)

4th -

5th - Rime Spell (Metamagic)

6th - Eldritch Heritage (Primal - Cold)

7th -

8th - Elemental Manipulation

9th - Spell Penetration

10th - Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)

12th - Elemental Focus (Cold)


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Waltz wrote:

[

Bonded items aren't fantastic

Gotta disagree here. If you leverage them properly, bonded items are awesome.

The trick is to fill up your spellbook with as many spells as possible. Unlike a Pearl of Power (which just lets you recast something you cast already), a bonded item lets you cast any spell that's in your spellbook that you're capable of casting. So: all the specialized spells that are sometimes useful, but that you wouldn't prepare because they're too situational? Buy them, get them in your spell book, and now you have them when you need them.

For instance, Liberating Command gets you out of a grapple. But you don't want to walk around all the time with it prepared, using up a spell slot against that one day in a year when you get grappled. Bonded item means you get it, write it in your spellbook and, boom, done -- you'll have it when you need it. Run up against a weird inscription? Comprehend Languages. Need to carry 300 lbs of loot and an unconscious barbarian out of the dungeon at a quick trot? Ant Haul or Floating Disk. Need to impress a tribe of goblins? Snapdragon Fireworks. Once it's in your spellbook, you can call on it forever.

Seriously, bonded items are great. The only negatives are the once/day restriction (awww), using up an item slot, and what happens if you lose one. That last bit is the ugly one.

But you can't say they're not fantastic. They're totally fantastic. Just, fantastic with some drawbacks.

Doug M.


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Waltz wrote:

[

Bonded items aren't fantastic

Gotta disagree here. If you leverage them properly, bonded items are awesome.

The trick is to fill up your spellbook with as many spells as possible. Unlike a Pearl of Power (which just lets you recast something you cast already), a bonded item lets you cast any spell that's in your spellbook that you're capable of casting. So: all the specialized spells that are sometimes useful, but that you wouldn't prepare because they're too situational? Buy them, get them in your spell book, and now you have them when you need them.

For instance, Liberating Command gets you out of a grapple. But you don't want to walk around all the time with it prepared, using up a spell slot against that one day in a year when you get grappled. Bonded item means you get it, write it in your spellbook and, boom, done -- you'll have it when you need it. Run up against a weird inscription? Comprehend Languages. Need to carry 300 lbs of loot and an unconscious barbarian out of the dungeon at a quick trot? Ant Haul or Floating Disk. Need to impress a tribe of goblins? Snapdragon Fireworks. Once it's in your spellbook, you can call on it forever.

Seriously, bonded items are great. The only negatives are the once/day restriction (awww), using up an item slot, and what happens if you lose one. That last bit is the ugly one.

But you can't say they're not fantastic. They're totally fantastic. Just, fantastic with some drawbacks.

Doug M.

I like this and up the ante with this.


You can enchant your bonded item, so it doesn't actually use up an item slot (says the halfling wizard whose item is That One Ring...) At higher levels, that extra flexible isn't just flexible, it's an extra casting of your highest level spell, which is very powerful.


@Douglas: Eh? I'm just not a giant fan. For contingency purposes scrolls work well enough except for higher level spells. Bonded items just add that layer of vulnerability to being taken or destroyed and use up a magic item slot that makes me not too keen on them while only providing a benefit that I find to personally be extraordinary fantastic. Plus I'm a huge fan of improved familiar and all the cool things to be had with that so that tips my bias.

It's not an avenue I'd personally advocate or recommend, but I won't really say it's a horrible choice. I do think going generalist is typically a poor one and there are various methods or build options to get around the penalties of opposition schools so I lent my two cents more to that matter instead.

Bonded item vs. Familiar is just a preference thing both aren't fantastic class abilities, IMHO. The class ability to specialize in an arcane school however holds more of a universal agreement to be a damn good idea.

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