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The question has been made moot by Grick with:
"Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity"
and link to the relevant section of the rules
A recent discussion in the Advice section has evidenced that there are problems with what is an armed touch attack when used to deliver touch range spells.
The problem:
- the rules say that a attack that is not armed provoke an attack of opportunity
- some spell that can be delivered by touch attacks count as an armed attack and don’t provoke
(for example Shocking grasp)
- some touch range spells, that can be delivered by a touch attack clearly don’t count (for example Restoration or Invisibility)
- some spell are in a muddy middle ground (Cure spells when used to cure and not to harm, Arcane mark [being marked is a negative effect and can be constructed as being sufficiently threatening to count as an armed attack])
Then we have an added problem with the means of delivery utilized:
- a magus Spellstrike: the spell don’t count as a weapon, but he is using a weapon to deliver the spell
- a spellcaster with improved unarmed strike
- a spellcaster with a naturally damaging touch
Opinions?
And if you think it is a valid question, please hit the FAQ button.
I think you should edit it to include the relevant text from the Magus class about the "melee touch attack spell".
It doesn't matter whether it's an armed attack or not to the Magus, who delivers it through his weapon.
Make the bad guy invisible before you attack him? That would be funny.
- the rules say that a attack that is not armed provoke an attack of opportunity
Ok, yes.
- some spell that can be delivered by touch attacks count as an armed attack and don’t provoke
(for example Shocking grasp)
"A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks)." [1]
"Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity." [2]
- some touch range spells, that can be delivered by a touch attack clearly don’t count (for example Restoration or Invisibility)
- some spell are in a muddy middle ground (Cure spells when used to cure and not to harm, Arcane mark [being marked is a negative effect and can be constructed as being sufficiently threatening to count as an armed attack])
"You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll." [2]
Then we have an added problem with the means of delivery utilized:
- a magus Spellstrike: the spell don’t count as a weapon, but he is using a weapon to deliver the spell
Not only is the magus armed by having a charged touch spell, he's also wielding a weapon.
If he's healing a friend, he's probably not going to use Spellstrike to do so.
- a spellcaster with improved unarmed strike
- a spellcaster with a naturally damaging touch
"If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack." [3]
What was the actual question?
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I'm just wondering why casting invisibility on someone who doesn't want to be invisible would not count as a touch attack.
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject... Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
I don't see anywhere that gives the possibility of a touch spell cast on a hostile opponent not being a touch attack.
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I think you should edit it to include the relevant text from the Magus class about the "melee touch attack spell".
The idea is to make a general question, not something related only to the magus. I don't see something really useful in that piece of text, if you see something that you think is relevant, add it in a post.
I'm just wondering why casting invisibility on someone who doesn't want to be invisible would not count as a touch attack.
Armed touch attack.
It doesn't matter whether it's an armed attack or not to the Magus, who delivers it through his weapon.
So if I learn Improved unarmed strike I can deliver whatever touch spell I want without provoking an attack of opportunity?
"My hand is my weapon"?
So if I learn Improved unarmed strike I can deliver whatever touch spell I want without provoking an attack of opportunity?
If you're using your unarmed strike to deliver the held charge of a touch spell, then you attack normal AC instead of touch AC, and dealing unarmed strike damage as well as delivering the spell. If your unarmed strike normally provokes, then so does using it to deliver the charge. If your unarmed strike normally doesn't charge, then it doesn't.
Or, you could not use unarmed strike, and deliver the touch spell normally, vs Touch AC. This is considered armed (see [1] above) and does not provoke.
Note: This is for anyone who casts a touch spell, this is not magus specific.
Unless the target has spellcraft he/she can't tell the difference between invisibility or shocking grasp or any other touch spell. All they know is that you're trying to touch them with magic. Hence if they don't trust you, they'll defend themselves the same way.
deletion of post due to reading of spellstrike and other factors.
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Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally. .