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Checking with the community to determine what the general consenus is regarding the Hungry Ghost Monks "Steel Ki" ability. The player wants to steal ki from unconcious opponents (for instance, an opponent that was nocked below zero HP by another party member), justifying it by the fact that a coup de grace is a critical hit. Technically, as per RAW, this is true. RAI? Probably not so much. Thoughts?
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I dunno. I do feel its thematic.
Have you ever seen the mortal kombat movies, or other kung fu types, where the evil BBEG has a helpless citizen knocked out, then leans over them, drawing out their life essence to kill them?
That's sort of what I picture here.
I agree that its valid by RAW. I looked up the coup de gras text to make sure, and RAW its correct. RAI? Well, I dont think the devs really put that much thought into it, I dont see any specific intent either way here.
That is very thematic. I like it a lot.
Wait, so delivering a death blow is less good than just letting them bleed out? I mean, its a monster, and its unconscious. You're not gonna let it get back up to come eat you later, and its not like it can be reasoned with.
I fail to see how thats an evil act
If you're worried about the player abusing it, remind them that repeatedly attacking helpless opponents is not something that good PCs do. Neutral maybe, but it feels like an evil act.
Stealing ki is an evil act already, I don't think the coup de grace makes it too much worse.
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I'm not saying it's an evil act to end an evil outsider. I'm saying that repeated uses and abuses of this ability on helpless combatants could be construed as an evil act depending on circumstances. If it's a demon, I think you're okay. If it's three random mercenaries who didn't have to die and you're ending them just for the ki, I'd say it leans evil at least.
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yea. Because monks are overpowered, right? And your monk traded stunning fist for punishing kick, further weakening him.
Having monks with actual uses for their ki instead of hording is a good thing, as they'll be more effective, and they could use the boost. Decent archetype.
Stealing could be seen as an unlawful act, but not evil.
From Steal Ki of a Hungry Ghost Monk:
"At 5th level, a hungry ghost monk can steal ki from other creatures, though this ability is controversial in some circles of monks, who see it as nothing less than a form of vampirism."The spell ki leech, which does just a little less for the monk than Steal Ki:
"School necromancy [evil]; Level cleric/oracle 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3"
I would just worry about a monk who uses all his ki every battle because he knows he's going to coup all his living opponents to fill back up.
The hungry ghost monk in one of my games burns a ki for an extra attack (or extra AC) on almost every turn, because he lands a crit on almost every series of attacks (keen temple sword, 6 attacks with ki, fairly high attack bonus). On average, a 17-20 weapon will threaten one crit per 5 attacks, and if he can confirm 2/3 of them (arbitrary number - I haven't been counting), he still confirms a crit (and thus doesn't lose a ki) on 80% of his turns.
So yeah, a hungry ghost monk plays quite differently than a standard one, because you're able to constantly spend ki.
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I actually have no problem with doing it. I say only that a paladin might. Not if it's a demon, but if it's a palace guard or a sellsword.
I think the hungry ghost monk is almost as good as the zen archer, but there's some kind of disconnect with what I'm saying and what is being interpreted. I'm not worried about stealing ki being overpowered. I'm worrying about the moral quandaries of the standard practise of 'coup de grace every enemy to fill up my ki gas tank'. It's okay for some fights, and other fights (depending on circumstances and with whom they are fighting) I would feel iffy about it.
I actually have no problem with doing it. I say only that a paladin might. Not if it's a demon, but if it's a palace guard or a sellsword.
I think the hungry ghost monk is almost as good as the zen archer, but there's some kind of disconnect with what I'm saying and what is being interpreted. I'm not worried about stealing ki being overpowered. I'm worrying about the moral quandaries of the standard practise of 'coup de grace every enemy to fill up my ki gas tank'. It's okay for some fights, and other fights (depending on circumstances and with whom they are fighting) I would feel iffy about it.
Here's the thing. There are a large number of fights that you dont end up with unconscious enemies anyways. Undead (destroyed at 0) or anytime you do enough damage to outright kill something (all the time as a fighter) the monk can't do this.
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I actually have no problem with doing it. I say only that a paladin might. Not if it's a demon, but if it's a palace guard or a sellsword.
I think the hungry ghost monk is almost as good as the zen archer, but there's some kind of disconnect with what I'm saying and what is being interpreted. I'm not worried about stealing ki being overpowered. I'm worrying about the moral quandaries of the standard practise of 'coup de grace every enemy to fill up my ki gas tank'. It's okay for some fights, and other fights (depending on circumstances and with whom they are fighting) I would feel iffy about it.
Here's the thing. There are a large number of fights that you dont end up with unconscious enemies anyways. Undead (destroyed at 0) or anytime you do enough damage to outright kill something (all the time as a fighter) the monk can't do this.
So use it when you're able, and when your character can justify killing helpless non-combatants. For a lawful good monk, I'd say that's a demon, a devil, or an enemy that you cannot hold and if let loose would unleash more evil upon the world. For a lawful neutral monk you've got more breathing room. For a lawful evil monk, kill'em all and drink their precious ki juices.
The spell ki leech, which does just a little less for the monk than Steal Ki:
"School necromancy [evil]; Level cleric/oracle 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3"I'd say the most evil thing about Ki Leech is how _completely worthless_ it is.
actually a qinggong monk can trade any of his level +10 abilities to use it for free. Not a bad trade imo.
That sounds like a good thing for a zen archer to snag actually.
Remember, if asked whether or not you are going Qinggong, reply yes.