What happens if a barbarian/duelist ready himself (for come and get me) and leave one attack to parry? Does the AOO happen first or the parry when enemy attacks?
If the parry resolves first and succeed canceling the opponent's attack, how many times (assuming he has riposte) does he strike back?
Thanks in advance.
An Attack of Opportunity happens right before the action that triggered it. So in this case, you would get your attack, and then could choose to parry no problem. If you successfully riposte, it would go:
Attack of Opportunity 1 -> Enemy Attack -> Successful Parry -> Attack of Opportunity 2
An action by an enemy cannot provoke more than one AoO.
Also a 'readied action' is not the same as an AoO.
IF mort had put:
Readied attack -> Enemy Attack -> Successful Parry -> Attack of Opportunity
He would have been right (if I understand the question correctly).
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I assumed "ready himself" was just extra explanation of "leave one attack for a parry."
Anyway, I think my order of operations is right. While an action can only provoke one attack of opportunity, the attacks aren't being provoked by the same thing. The first is due to attacking, while the second is due to being blocked.
It would be like Person A trying to drink a potion, provoking an attack from Person B. Person B uses that attack to Greater Trip Person A, provoking a second attack (even though they both came about from the action of drinking the potion).
Unless that is also not how it works. In which case, please be ignoring me. Admittedly, I don't think I've ever seen something like that come up in a game, and never had cause to actually check what the common understanding of it is.
Hm... I thought he meant a readied action to attack when the enemy attacks since simply attacking doesn't provoke an AoO... however I probably should have realized from the title that he also meant he was using Come and Get Me as well (which would allow for an AoO).
I think I will change my position on the AoO thing as well since as you pointed out it's the parry that gives the second AoO not the attack itself.
Also my scenario of readying an attack couldn't work since you have to full attack to parry (which means of course you don't have a standard action to ready with).
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The rule of "only one AoO per opponent action" is not accurate (though I was under this impression until recently).
This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).
The key words are highlighted. It says "for a given opportunity", not for a given action on the enemy's (or any other character's) part. If more than one ability/rule grants opportunities in different ways, a single action could theoretically provoke more than once.
The "only once per action" thing is generally extrapolated from the next line:
Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
This defines movement as only ever being one opportunity (per round), and thus movement can never provoke more than one AoO from the same opponent in the same round. This, however, is not extended to other actions (to my knowledge).
As Mort said, an AoO granted by Come and Get Me and one granted by the Parry are different opportunities, and thus both provoke an AoO separately. Scary, but they paid the price via the class abilities so let them have it.
Agreed (as you'll notice in my second post) -- besides giving the player two AoOs in exchange for a +4 to all attack and damage rolls (note the number of spells that have damage rolls such as magic missile) is something I'm more than willing to do, especially at lower level.
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Agreed (as you'll notice in my second post) -- besides giving the player two AoOs in exchange for a +4 to all attack and damage rolls (note the number of spells that have damage rolls such as magic missile) is something I'm more than willing to do, especially at lower level.
Sorry. When I clicked "reply" your post hadn't been made yet. It's still important to make the point for others that may read this thread, however.
(PS: For those who have insane AC, that trade-off may be totally worth it. Especially if they have Crane Wing, which would let them ignore the first successful hit and, with the next feat, AoO that person for their trouble yet again. Also, great for those with Combat Reflexes and high dex against crowds of smaller melee opponents as the AoO may very well kill them before the triggering attack resolves.)
EDIT: Also, Come and Get Me requires 12 levels of barbarian, so neither low level nor squishy.
What happens if a barbarian/duelist ready himself (for come and get me) and leave one attack to parry? Does the AOO happen first or the parry when enemy attacks?
If the parry resolves first and succeed canceling the opponent's attack, how many times (assuming he has riposte) does he strike back?
I agree with Mort.
The duelist/barbarian makes a full attack with a rapier or whatever, and elects not to take one of the attacks. She activates Come and Get me. End of turn.
An enemy then tries to attack.
1) The enemy provokes an AoO (from CaGM). Resolve it.
2) The d/b chooses to attempt to parry the attack as an immediate action. Make the attack roll to see if it beats the incoming attack roll (which is at +4 from CaGM). If the d/b's attack roll doesn't beat the enemy attack roll, the enemy attack lands. If the d/b parries it, the attack misses, and if she has Riposte and Combat Reflexes, she can make an AoO against the enemy.
Come and Get Me (Ex): "While raging, as a free action the barbarian may leave herself open to attack while preparing devastating counterattacks. Enemies gain a +4 bonus on attack and damage rolls against the barbarian until the beginning of her next turn, but every attack against the barbarian provokes an attack of opportunity from her, which is resolved prior to resolving each enemy attack. A barbarian must be at least 12th level to select this rage power."
Parry (Ex): "At 2nd level, a duelist learns to parry the attacks of other creatures, causing them to miss. Whenever the duelist takes a full attack action with a light or one-handed piercing weapon, she can elect not to take one of her attacks. At any time before her next turn, she can attempt to parry an attack against her or an adjacent ally as an immediate action. To parry the attack, the duelist makes an attack roll, using the same bonuses as the attack she chose to forego during her previous action. If her attack roll is greater than the roll of the attacking creature, the attack automatically misses. For each size category that the attacking creature is larger than the duelist, the duelist takes a –4 penalty on her attack roll. The duelist also takes a –4 penalty when attempting to parry an attack made against an adjacent ally. The duelist must declare the use of this ability after the attack is announced, but before the roll is made."
Riposte (Ex): "Starting at 5th level, a duelist can make an attack of opportunity against any creature whose attack she successfully parries, so long as the creature she is attacking is within reach."
Thanks for the answers. :) There's one more question. Can I use secondary attacks such as bite (from Toothy feat) / shoe blade (I think I read it somewhere but cannot find it for now) / claw / unarmed strike and such as light weapons to parry?
Thanks for the answers. :) There's one more question. Can I use secondary attacks such as bite (from Toothy feat) / shoe blade (I think I read it somewhere but cannot find it for now) / claw / unarmed strike and such as light weapons to parry?
As near as I can tell all natural attacks are considered light weapons, so as cheesey as it is you can parry with a bite RAW. Claws actually make sense as parrying weapons. I don't know the stats on the shoe blade, but I'm sure it's a light or one handed (footed?) piercing weapon so it would be fine to parry with (again, RAW doesn't mean it isn't cheesey...)
And seriously, I have to know what kind of build uses Come and Get Me (Barbarian), Parry/Riposte (Duelist), and a shoe blade? Morbid Curiosity...
Just for fun & ideas. I don't get to play with groups so I make characters (I'm terrible at this, back in college days when I was playing 3rd edition my characters were underpowered most of the time =P) and imagine adventuring on my own.
Was thinking about an urban one-handed barbarian who takes crane style route feats (taking improved unarmed strike) and some duelist classes (using the parry to fend off opponent's 3rd or 4th attack), with maybe 2 level of fighters (2 feats & armor proficiency that urban barbarian lacks). It sounds an interesting concept to me, though it would be feats hungry and probably will be underpowered in real sessions. The idea of biting off an enemy's attack then bite back sounds extremely cool to me. =P
Well, thinking about it, when you swing something at a dog (hypothetically speaking of course, I don't condone violence against dogs...), the animal will either try to dodge the attack, or bite whatever is being swung at it. Functionally it's the same thing.