I'm making a cleric for carrion crown and was looking for some advice on it.
Here's what I have so far
Human Cleric 1
Str:10
Dex:12
Con:12
Int:7
Wis:18
Cha:14
Domains: Sun and Fire
Feats: Turn Undead, Versatile Channeling
I'm planning on picking up Command Undead, Selective Channeling and Improved Channeling at later levels, allowing me to control a few meat shields and turn the others.
Human could become Changeling for better Cha, though i'm not sure yet. Same with the Domains, Fire could become Glory, or ditch both in favor of Darkness and Undeath, or something else. I took Fire so I'd have something to do other than channel and buff every round.
I have no idea what I'm really doing with this, it being my first time playing a cleric like this, especially in a campaign as undead focused as this one is.
Anyone who's played through it have advice on building a cleric for it?
Don't dump your Int so much, if you can help it. You'll need some skills to get you through this AP, and clerics don't get very many to start with. Having an Int penalty is going to hurt.
What deity are you looking at for your cleric?
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Don't dump your Int so much, if you can help it. You'll need some skills to get you through this AP, and clerics don't get very many to start with. Having an Int penalty is going to hurt.
What deity are you looking at for your cleric?
I agree with this.
You have to decide what you want your role to be.
Healer?
Buffer? / self buffer melee
Controller?
that can kinda guide you feat selection and archetype (if you want one).
Having played through this AP, yeah, Pharasma's a great deity for it. You won't regret this choice; it'll give you access to domains you'll really want, and plenty of RP options. Desna's also a pretty good choice from an RP perspective, and she gives you access to some really good domains, like the Travel domain mentioned above.
My group had an Inquisitor of Pharasma with the Travel domain, and that dimensional hop ability really saved our bacon on a couple of occasions, mostly by the inquisitor taking someone with him. It was very handy for getting our TWF Fighter with a reach weapon out of grapples so he could smash faces, or for getting out cleric within range to cast breath of life on someone who just went down.
Our Cleric of Pharasma took the Healing and Repose domains, and while she was very much a healbot, she was a very effective one. Her Ward against Death domain ability made our DM facepalm on a couple of occasions, because of how it totally shut down the offensive abilities of whomever we were fighting.
My group so far has a Wizard
A Witch
An Alchemist
A Fighter
and Me A Cleric
I'm expected to be a party face, as the casters went all out stone faces, and the fighter isn't too pretty either.
I think the Alchemist is melee, but I'm not for certain on that. He mentioned Rogue or Ranger later levels, so I'd assume so.
I guess I'd be going support/control since I'm the party face as well. I figured a bunch of channel utility would go well, since it's heavy undead, and the fire domain would cover the non undead, but I hadn't considered the Pharasma or Desna paths at all.
The reason I dumped Int is because we have so many casters already. I'd have to pump at least 4 points into it to get more than 2 (1 from human, one from min) skill points and it just didn't seem likely that i'd ever be able to work it nicely with a 15 point buy.
Right now I'm a cleric of Sarenrae, but that can change. I should note that I do not wish to become a heal bot, and while we have damage pretty much covered with the rest of the group, I still want to be effective in combat more than "buff, heal, run around, heal, heal... etc".
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My group so far has a Wizard
A Witch
An Alchemist
A Fighter
and Me A ClericI'm expected to be a party face, as the casters went all out stone faces, and the fighter isn't too pretty either.
I think the Alchemist is melee, but I'm not for certain on that. He mentioned Rogue or Ranger later levels, so I'd assume so.
I guess I'd be going support/control since I'm the party face as well. I figured a bunch of channel utility would go well, since it's heavy undead, and the fire domain would cover the non undead, but I hadn't considered the Pharasma or Desna paths at all.
The reason I dumped Int is because we have so many casters already. I'd have to pump at least 4 points into it to get more than 2 (1 from human, one from min) skill points and it just didn't seem likely that i'd ever be able to work it nicely with a 15 point buy.
Right now I'm a cleric of Sarenrae, but that can change. I should note that I do not wish to become a heal bot, and while we have damage pretty much covered with the rest of the group, I still want to be effective in combat more than "buff, heal, run around, heal, heal... etc".
First up, your stats are that of a 15 pointbuy... that's bad, cos a cleric needs number in all the stats to work properly.
Carrion Crown calls for some channeling so don't drop your Cha below 12, but with a 15-pointbuy don't focus too much on channeling as you won't have the stats to be a channel cleric and still SURVIVE.
2ndly, if you are the party face you need at least 12 in Int. Cos you need skill points in Diplo and perception, in addition to other skills like heal and Knowledge Religion. You need all the skills point you can get.
I will suggest that if you do need to drop a stat, drop Dex. NOT that its a good ideal to, but its the best of a bad situation. Make up for the lack of dex with feats and traits that gives initiative and all the armor you can get.
Finally your party has only 1 proper front line tanker, and unless the Alchemist is a melee type, you may want to fill up the gap with being a summoner-cleric. (Assuming the wizard and witch are not summoners.)
The reason is that any enemy with more then 5 intel is going to get YOU the healer or the other spellcasters asap once a battle starts. With only 1 fighter, they are going to just walk around him/her and go after you. Fill up the gaps in your party's defenses with summoned monsters can work wonders for you. You won't even need to heal as much as the monsters can soak up damage for you.
Finally for domains, I suggest you don't pick up Fire, as you already have both a wizard and a witch that will likely out Damage you when it comes to spells. Don't try to do their job.
Pick up domains that make you more "survivable". I will suggest Feather, for it great precption boost and Fly spells to keep you out of trouble (Not to mention a pet at lv 4), Liberation, for its great "get out of trouble" lv 1 power and its great aura later, Heroism for its Glory domain's lv 1 power that can help you be a better "Party Face" and finally Luck, for its unbeatable Bit of Luck, double dice rolls, power. Remember Bit of Luck and Touch of Glory can affect YOU, so it makes you much better when it comes to those skill/saves checks.
All in all, its tough to be a 15 point-buy cleric, but just remember not to do stuff you are bad in and work on what you can do well, even better!
Are there any methods or Deities that carry both Glory and Travel (trade)? After reviewing the domains a bit, I find those two to be quite to my liking but haven't seen any Deities with both of those together.
I did mention that the alchemist is probably a vivisectionist, so I'm assuming he's melee, though I haven't seen the summoning route. What would it entail besides the standard action summon feat?
7 int? I know you need a dump stat, but thats going to be rough to roleplay... I mean if a 10 or 12 is average, 7 is almost as dumb as a box of rocks. Your in Big stupid fighter territory. LoL
I know this wont be popular with the optimizing croud, but how about scaling the wisdom back by a point, and droping a point of str (or 2). The wisdom can be made up at level 4, and you are going to be in medium load or heavy load reguardless dew to your armor (and if your swinging your mace, things have gone wrong somewhere).
That frees up enough points to actually have some skill points to work with, and still have a decent channel. Maybe something like 9 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 15 (+2) Wis, 12 Chr... I think thats 15 points?
Just my toughts, looking at it from anouther angle...
Edited to look up the point values,
Thinking on it more, I think it'll be hard for you to really play a face with the number of skill points a cleric has available. You'll have a higher charisma, sure, but you won't be able to invest skill points in diplomacy and the like. I'd actually recommend that your party's witch or alchemist take on face duty, at least after the first book. With the high intelligence score both classes require, they should have plenty of skill points to make up for a lower charisma score. Having played a witch, I know they don't need as much of a well-rounded skillset as other classes (a good intelligence is all you really need, though a decent constitution and dexterity are handy), so that character might not need to dump charisma as hard as others. Plus, UMD is charisma-based, and a witch class skill, so investing in Charisma a little bit is an investment. (And you'll need someone with a good UMD score during this AP.)
You cannot pay me enough to dump INT that hard.
That's Idiocracy territory you're straying into. Not a good idea for a spellcaster. Hell, not a good idea for anybody. Especially not for anyone who fancies themselves a 'face'. You're going to find that, in the long run, high INT makes you a better face than high CHA. (unless for some reason you have spare skill ranks all over the place)
Given that we have 3 int classes, I think we'll have the knowledges covered. With a highish charisma and domains that add to it, diplomacy and such shouldn't be that hard to get up there.
I know 2 skill points isn't much per level, but i'd have to invest 4 points just to get one more, and besides diplomacy and sense motive, all I really need are a few points here and there in stuff like heal and maybe survival and that's it. At least from my perspective, unless I'm missing something. I can also skip a few hp to get some skill points should I need it.
15 point buy is hard, especially for a MAD class like Cleric, I've gotta take hits where I can and make the rest of it work as best I am able. Sure, role playing a face with 7 cha is hard, but think of him as a loveable goof who you just can't say no too!
Also, for those that have played it, I know I said I like the Travel domain and the Glory domain, but out of the following what would be, in your opinion, the best combo for the setting?
Protection, Nobility(leadership), Good, Glory(Heroism), Sun, Travel(Trade), Repose, Liberation, Luck, or Law?
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Are there any methods or Deities that carry both Glory and Travel (trade)? After reviewing the domains a bit, I find those two to be quite to my liking but haven't seen any Deities with both of those together.
I did mention that the alchemist is probably a vivisectionist, so I'm assuming he's melee, though I haven't seen the summoning route. What would it entail besides the standard action summon feat?
Looked up the list of Deities for you and... Nope there is no deity with both Travel and Glory. The two domain ideals are just too fair apart.
On Glory and Travel:As mentioned by Axebeard, one option is to pick up the Separatist cleric Archetype.
The problem with Separatist is that it, quote "powers from the cleric’s second domain function as if the cleric’s level, Wisdom, and Charisma were 2 lower than normal (minimum level 1) in terms of effect, DC, and uses per day. This also means the separatist doesn’t gain the domain’s higher-level ability until 2 levels later than normal.If the second domain grants additional class skills, the separatist gains these as normal. "
This means your Glory or Travel 2nd power will only kick in at lv 10 instead of lv 8. Those 2 level can be a very long time.
And you also lose your Deity's Favor Weapon, which could hurt you.
Also, if you pick up the Glory Domain, I will suggest you pick up the Heroism subdomain instead, as Heroism replaces spells and gives a much better lv 8 power. (Aka, Heroism's Aura helps the party kill faster.)
I will suggest you decide with of the two domains you prefer more and pick a Deity that suit your character and another domain.
1) Glory or Heroism + Good/Healing/Sun = a more Buff or Battle focused Cleric
2) Travel or Exploration + Luck/Liberation/Love = A more "freedom of movement" type Cleric. Aka you are more survivable as its harder to pin you down in combat.
The choice is yours, but again, there is sadly no Deity with Glory and Travel together.
On Summoning
IF you want to be a Summoner Cleric, you must be prepared to be 1 from the start.
Being a Cleric don't makes you any weaker then other classes when it comes to summoning. Wizards/Clerics/Sorcerers all take time to summon monsters and the differnces are very little between the classes. Master summoners are the exception, as they are MADE to summon.
So... Here is a couple of things you need to decide:
1) Are your summons "cannon fodder"? or actual sources of damage?
The reason is that most summons are only so-so in terms of toughness and Str. So the Augment Summoning Feat is needed to buff the summons' combat potential.
However! Augment Summoning requires Spell Focus (conjuration), which means another feat slot needed.
IF you are summoning just to soak up damage and draw enemies attention to your summons, then you don't need Augment Summoning. But if you want to do more damage in battle, then you need to budget for Augment Summoning, aka 2 feat slots.
2) Sacred Summons, and its limits
Sacred Summons seems very powerful, and it is, BUT! Its limited to only a small selection of summons AND YOU must share your Deity's and the Summons Alignment. In another words
(You) LG + Deity LG + Summoned Monster LG = Sacred Summons working
(You) NG + Deity LG + Summoned Monster LG = Sacred Summons NOT working
(You) LG + Deity NG + Summoned Monster LG = Sacred Summons NOT working
.... and so on....
Therefore PICKING YOUR DEITY and YOUR ALIGNEMENT is VERY important for Sacred Summons to work!
1 good example is Lantern Archons which are LG. If you pick say Desna a CG Deity or Sarenrae a NG Deity, Sacred Summons won't allow you to summon Lantern Archons as a standard action.
On the matter of Creature must have "Good/Neutal/Chas/Evil/Law" alignment subtype matching yours, by raw this seems to means only the creatures that have this subtypes... meaning ALL animals cannot be Sacred Summoned, even if they have the Celestial templete as they don't have the proper alignment subtype.
Lantern Archons have the good and lawful subtypes, but that Celetial Giant Eagle may be good and Lawful, but don't have them as subtypes... so Sacred Summoned don't work on it.
So... its best if you do want Sacred Summons to take to your DM, ans ask if he allows Sacred Summons to work on animals. If he does allows it, then Sacred Summons is VERY GOOD to have.
3) Languages
You need to be able to communicate with your summons to get them to do more then, attack and defend you. So you need points in Linguistic and therefore more skill points.
Each point gives you 1 language, so pick those that you will use for your summons. Celestial, and the Elemental languages are good choices at lower levels.
Also, remember that Animals have only an Intel of 2, which means that they cannot understand any language... You will need the handle animal skill to get them to do specific actions, like to stop them from attacking/killing the angry villages.
HOWEVER! Again, Talk to your DM, as some like mine, allows the animals to understand the languages that they have a template with. Aka Celestial Animals understanding you if you speak Celestial and so forth. ASK your DM. (The animals cannot speak Celestial, no lips, but they understand commands given in Celestial.)
4) Summoning = A lot of extra paperwork
You need to have the stats of every creature you plan to summon on hand.
Spending 15 mins, reading up on a summon monster during combat is very bad manners and unfair to your fellow players. So be prepared!
Also you need to keep track of the damage each of your summons takes. Aka, more paper work...
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Summoning is very powerful, but it requires more on your part too!
Given that we have 3 int classes, I think we'll have the knowledges covered. With a highish charisma and domains that add to it, diplomacy and such shouldn't be that hard to get up there.
I know 2 skill points isn't much per level, but i'd have to invest 4 points just to get one more, and besides diplomacy and sense motive, all I really need are a few points here and there in stuff like heal and maybe survival and that's it. At least from my perspective, unless I'm missing something. I can also skip a few hp to get some skill points should I need it.
15 point buy is hard, especially for a MAD class like Cleric, I've gotta take hits where I can and make the rest of it work as best I am able. Sure, role playing a face with 7 cha is hard, but think of him as a loveable goof who you just can't say no too!
Also, for those that have played it, I know I said I like the Travel domain and the Glory domain, but out of the following what would be, in your opinion, the best combo for the setting?
Protection, Nobility(leadership), Good, Glory(Heroism), Sun, Travel(Trade), Repose, Liberation, Luck, or Law?
First up! Cha 7 is asking for it! Cha determines your channels per day so don't drop it below 12! and you will NEED Channeling in Carrion Crow. For some parts at least.
As for 7 Int, its up to you. But as I have written above, if you want to be a summoner, you need skill points in Linguistic and handle animals. Not to mention the all IMPORTANT perception. Also, some DMs don't like "dump stats" and if you have 7 Int, they can call you out when you make any "Intelligent actions" and force you to make a stupid or worse action, that can harm you and the party.
On the Domains again,
For a guide to on each domain look here Tark's Big Holy Book of Clerical Optimization-Intro and Links
1) I suggest you worship Iomedae and grab the:
Glory(Heroism) - As its a powerful all-rounder buff and support domain. Also it give you a +2 to your channel positive energy checks, which is useful against undead. The Heroism subdomain is potentially more powerful as it give the Heroism spell, which is a pretty powerful buff.
Good - As its lv 1 power is a great buff and it gets a lot better as you level. With Good and Glory's lv 1 powers on yourself... you can a real party face. Also the spells Good gives, like protection from evil, is great as many enemies will be evil.
Finally, as Iomedae is LG, even with out Argument Summons. You can Sacred Summons Lantern Archons, one of the best damage dealing summons out there. PLUS! You have the spells from your domains to buff it further.
An Iomedae Cleric plays more like a traditonal Cleric, you are a walking buff machine, able to layer on your allies with buffs and is more suited to be a summoner.
or
2) You go with Desna and grab:
Liberation - For its great "freedom of movement" power, meaning you can get to your allies that need healing even if they are trap in a magic web.
and
Travel(Exlporation) or Luck - Both are good. Luck is more buffing, while Travel plays on the "you can't get me" effect when combined with Liberation. If you want to be the party face, luck great as you get to foll twice on your check by using the level 1 power.
A Desna Cleric is more flexible and harder to be grab, pin or hit as he/she can move more freely about the battle field.
You won't have as much buffing/support or melee fighting potential as an Iomedae Cleric, but that's the price you pay for being harder to bring down.
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In any case, you are on the right track on most things, just decide with type of cleric you would prefer more.
Remember that the Cleric class, is pretty powerful on its own, domains just helps to refine it and make it better in certain things.