Throwing Rocks

[darth_borehd]

What damage would a human throwing rocks do?

[darth_borehd]

Also, what damage is there from hitting somebody with a rock in melee?

I ask because I trying to make a "shipwreck" adventure and the characters will be stuck with weapons like rocks and sticks for a while.

[nosig]

I've always given them a d4, but I've seen a mod with Ape-men (small) throwing rocks that did a d4 +STR, and they were small.

So, treat it as a thrown Club - that should work right?

[Jiggy]

Note that whatever the case, a melee or thrown weapon (improvised or not) will gain your STR mod to damage (or 1.5xSTRmod if wielding 2-handed, or .5xSTRmod if using as an off-hand attack via the TWF mechanic).

As for the dice, the rules in the Equipment chapter of the CRB/PRD say to compare the general size and damage capability to an existing weapon (though crits are always 20/x2).

So anything about club-sized (and sufficiently dense) I'd give a d6 damage. Smaller would be 1d4 or 1d3 (depending on how small). Something big enough to require two hands I'd liken to a greatclub, for 1d10.

[The Black Bard]

Also, a good rule of thumb I like to use is what I call the Rule of 5 and 15.

5 is how many HP an average Joe can be expected to have (some might argue 3 or 4, but I figure most commoners put a 12 in con. When your a peasant, survivability is paramount.)

So consider that anything doing 5+ damage consistently is something that can conceivably render the average man dying with a single solid (non-critical) hit. Greatswords and greataxes? Sounds about right. Shortswords and daggers? Eh, they can be fatal, but that sounds like heart/neck/headshots, aka crits. In general this works pretty well to benchmark damage. Throwing a rock at a person can be fatal, if you get a headshot, but anywhere else and you just hurt the person. I would see 1d3 or 1d4, probably the d4 since the -4 for improvised is also a factor in its lethality. Keep in mind, anything more than perhaps 3 pounds is a bit much for the average person to lob the 50' that a thrown weapon can reach. Dropping a 30 pound rock off of a cliff on someone will be far more devastating, but that isn't a one-handed thrown weapon, to be sure.

Next in the Rule of 5 and 15 is, shock, 15! This is the average Joe's hp pf 5, plus 10 more for his death threshold. In other words, anything doing more than 15 points of damage is instantly fatal. No tender last words, no CPR, no emergency medical action, no last minute heal spells. Dead. Flat out. Head torn off, heart torn out, torso crushed, legs severed at the thigh for instant bleed out, etc etc. Anything doing 15+ damage is basically an ambulatory 60 mph car-crash in terms of how fatal it is.

So a 30 pound rock from 20 feet up? I can see 3d6 from that, highly likely to be lethal, but would take a crit to be instantly fatal. A thrown rock though, not happening unless something with horrific strength is throwing it. Consider, a STR 20 raging barbarian could throw a 1d4 rock for 1d5+5, which is 2d4+10 on a crit, average of 15. Headshots from this barbarian are instantly and irrecoverably fatal to the average human.

Just some thoughts I use to keep things in perspective. D&D sometimes seems to not be very simulationist at all, but once you reel it in to the baseline of "average human", sometimes it starts looking more sensible. Just have to remember PCs are just not average.

[nosig]

thrown brick, thrown club - I'd think they do about the same damage.

Bigger guy throws a bigger club/brick with more force, so you get damage + Strength

what damage do you get if you throw a heavy mace? more than you get for a Javelin?

there is some question about 1.5 times STR to the damage thou, I don't think you get it even if you use two hands to throw.

[darth_borehd]

Shouldn't stone do more damage than wood?

[Mystic_Snowfang]

Depends on how big the rock is

[darth_borehd]

Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

Depends on how big the rock is

Let's say a fist-sized block of wood versus the same size rock. Which would do the more damage? Or are they about equal?

[Mystic_Snowfang]

darth_borehd wrote:

Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

Depends on how big the rock is

Let's say a fist-sized block of wood versus the same size rock. Which would do the more damage? Or are they about equal?

What sort of wood, what sort of stone? There's a lot more than just "rock vs wood"... and I'm no expert in game mechanics, I was just trying to be clever

[Talynonyx]

The Black Bard wrote:

Next in the Rule of 5 and 15 is, shock, 15! This is the average Joe's hp pf 5, plus 10 more for his death threshold. In other words, anything doing more than 15 points of damage is instantly fatal. No tender last words, no CPR, no emergency medical action, no last minute heal spells. Dead. Flat out. Head torn off, heart torn out, torso crushed, legs severed at the thigh for instant bleed out, etc etc. Anything doing 15+ damage is basically an ambulatory 60 mph car-crash in terms of how fatal it is.

Except the peasant in your example doesn't die until -12.

[Kata. the .....]

Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

darth_borehd wrote:

Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

Depends on how big the rock is

Let's say a fist-sized block of wood versus the same size rock. Which would do the more damage? Or are they about equal?

What sort of wood, what sort of stone? There's a lot more than just "rock vs wood"... and I'm no expert in game mechanics, I was just trying to be clever

It's probably the weight of the projectile that will make more of a difference. Ask anyone who has ever tried to "throw" a 16lb or even 8lb shot put. You're going to dislocate your shoulder long before you really throw it. A 3lb rock and a 3lb chunk of wood are probably going to, in general, do the same amount of damage. Now, if you are throwing a 3lb chunk of balsa wood or similar, aerodynamics is going to affect it so your "victim" might be able to catch it.

Although, with that said d4 + strength seems reasonable (and probably what I would do), especially with the -4 nonstandard weapon penalty.

[karkon]

Here is the improvised weapon rule:Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

Comparing a rock to a sling bullet might be appropriate. The improvised rock gets a shorter range increment but should do about the same damage.

A sturdy stick is really just a club so I would use that damage. If a character with Craft Weapons spends a day or so with it he maybe could make a proper club or quarterstaff.

[nosig]

I could see a culture that used "thowing rocks" as a simple weapon. Kind of like using a stick for a club. Look around a bit, get a good chunk of wood and you've got a club. Grab a chair leg in a bar fight and it's an improvised weapon. Grab a fist sized stone from the ground - improvised weapon. Spend a hour or two sorting thru a stream bed and I'd be willing to give you a rock that does club damage. It's weigh about 3 lbs. (like a club) and have something like a range of 10' (like a club) but I'd cost it at two times the cost of the club ;)

I could even see counting it as a simple weapon....