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Rule Differences


Beginner Box

Andoran

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is there a list anywhere yet of the rule differences between Core rules and the beginner box? I know there are no attacks of opportunity but am wondering about others. I will be playing or running Saturday (depending on attendance) so i figure a quick cheat sheet would be handy. Anyone got their hands on a copy yet? I have to wait till after work to go get one (boo hiss).

Martin

Andoran

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

First, there is no rules difference, just less rules... That said this is what I have noticed, I am sure there is more.

Races

  • Only Dwarf, Elf and Human

Classes

  • Cleric – Does not talk about Domains, but they are still there, they just auto pick them based on your god
  • Fighter – Auto Picks some Bonus feats at Level 1 and 4 (Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization)
  • Rogue – Smaller selection of Rogue Talents
  • Wizard – Less Schools to choose from (Universalist, Evocation, Illusion), no Bonus feat at Level 5

Skills

  • Less Skills to choose from, missing Appraise, Craft, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge: Engineering, Knowledge: Nobility, Knowledge: Planes, Linguistics, Perform, Sleight of Hand, Survival, and Use Magic Device

Feats

  • A lot less feats to Choose from

Combat

  • No Attack of Opportunities
  • No Charging on Surprise
  • No Combat Maneuvers or Combat Defense
  • No Concentration checks to cast spells, you cannot cast spells when you are next to an enemy unless it is a touch attack spell

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Less rules is definitly a better way of putting it as opposed to different. Thanks for the list.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No Ability Damage or Drain (Poisons mostly give the sickened condition or penalties to whatever is affected by the stat they would normally be associated with.)

Similarly, Ability Boosts are dealt with by granting a bonus to what the stat affects rather than the stat itself.

Shadow Lodge

Reckless wrote:
Similarly, Ability Boosts are dealt with by granting a bonus to what the stat affects rather than the stat itself.

Interesting. I think I like this better. So what is a Belt of Strength +6 in Full PF would be a Belt of Strength +3 in the BB, but the +3 applies to your Strength MODIFIER instead of to the strength SCORE itself?

Interesting. Very interesting.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
Reckless wrote:
Similarly, Ability Boosts are dealt with by granting a bonus to what the stat affects rather than the stat itself.

Interesting. I think I like this better. So what is a Belt of Strength +6 in Full PF would be a Belt of Strength +3 in the BB, but the +3 applies to your Strength MODIFIER instead of to the strength SCORE itself?

Interesting. Very interesting.

Effectively, yes, but not by description:

Headband of Alluring Charisma (Game Master's Guide)
This silver headband is decorated with red and
orange gems. When worn, it gives you a +1 bonus on
CHA checks and CHA-based skill checks, and to save
DCs based on your CHA (such as channel energy).

Cat's Grace (Player Pack pdf)
Your touched ally gets more agile. The ally gets a +2 bonus on
ranged attack rolls, melee attack rolls using Weapon Finesse,
initiative checks, Reflex saving throws, Acrobatics checks, Disable
Device checks, Ride checks, Stealth checks, and to Armor Class.


Dragnmoon wrote:
stuff

Good list. Also, the cleric doesn't get a bonus domain spell.


Reckless wrote:
No Ability Damage or Drain...

NICE

But you know what really needs to go? Level drain! What an annoyance. No fun for the player at all, and has to be rectified with a powerful spell that costs tons of gold. And it gets way overused when up against undeads over a certain level. When I DM, I take out level drain, replacing it with an aging effect (touch = +1d6 years to your character's life), and I make ability damage/drain into a temporary effect which goes away on its one at a rate of 1 per hour.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No creatures or spells with Level drain in BB either, so it too is gone.


Not sure I like being unable to charge during the surprise round. (I'm actually not sure this was intentional -- perhaps an oversight.)

I think charging the enemy is the natural thing you'd want to do if you have surprise. But what if you're a melee fighter? You can't just run up to them -- you'll get whacked. May as well wait for your full-round action. What are you supposed to do, just stand there and say "Grr"?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber
HawaiianWarrior wrote:
Reckless wrote:
No Ability Damage or Drain...

NICE

But you know what really needs to go? Level drain! What an annoyance. No fun for the player at all, and has to be rectified with a powerful spell that costs tons of gold. And it gets way overused when up against undeads over a certain level. When I DM, I take out level drain, replacing it with an aging effect (touch = +1d6 years to your character's life), and I make ability damage/drain into a temporary effect which goes away on its one at a rate of 1 per hour.

[Grognard hat on] It was sooooo much worse in 2nd Edition [Grognard hat off]

Grand Lodge

FallofCamelot wrote:
HawaiianWarrior wrote:
Reckless wrote:
No Ability Damage or Drain...

NICE

But you know what really needs to go? Level drain! What an annoyance. No fun for the player at all, and has to be rectified with a powerful spell that costs tons of gold. And it gets way overused when up against undeads over a certain level. When I DM, I take out level drain, replacing it with an aging effect (touch = +1d6 years to your character's life), and I make ability damage/drain into a temporary effect which goes away on its one at a rate of 1 per hour.

[Grognard hat on] It was sooooo much worse in 2nd Edition [Grognard hat off]

I spat coffee out my nose when I read this as I thought the same exact thing while reading the post.


Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but there doesn't appear to be a maximum Dex bonus for Armor Class.

Interesting.


Ravenbow wrote:
I spat coffee out my nose when I read this as I thought the same exact thing while reading the post.

I played 1E, then pretty much skipped 2E (I think I played two or three sessions at one point as a 1st level character, but by that time I was exploring other games). So I never experienced 2E's approach to such things. All I can speak to is how frustrating and un-fun the current 3.5E/Pathfinder approach to level drain is. Perhaps it was worse in 2E, but that doesn't help me like it any better now.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Dies Irae wrote:
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but there doesn't appear to be a maximum Dex bonus for Armor Class.

No max dex and no armor check penalty, either. I don't really miss either of them, to be honest.

However, one thing that is still there is the speed reduction for medium and heavy armor. Unfortunately, it's not listed with the armors themselves, but rather in the introductory text. If I hadn't been specifically looking for it, I'd have missed that one. I think there will be lots of groups running around with full-plate fighters moving 30 feet.

Not that that's really such a bad thing, as long as they're having fun doing it . . . .


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
HawaiianWarrior wrote:
When I DM, I take out level drain, replacing it with an aging effect (touch = +1d6 years to your character's life), and I make ability damage/drain into a temporary effect which goes away on its one at a rate of 1 per hour.

Personally I'd find that much more horrifying than how it is now. Instead of a temporary and reversible condition, you're instead permanently altering a potentially beloved character forever. That may be great for a horror-based game, but I wouldn't like it one bit if this was core rather than a houserule. I used to never cast Haste or allow Haste to be cast upon my characters in 2nd Ed for fear of them aging.

As for your house rule for ability damage, while I'm able to track time fairly precisely in my PbP, I think I'd find the added bookkeeping in a live game to be burdensome.

Regardless, what ever works for your group is all that matters. I just wanted to point out that some of us might prefer otherwise. :)

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Reckless wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Reckless wrote:
Similarly, Ability Boosts are dealt with by granting a bonus to what the stat affects rather than the stat itself.

Interesting. I think I like this better. So what is a Belt of Strength +6 in Full PF would be a Belt of Strength +3 in the BB, but the +3 applies to your Strength MODIFIER instead of to the strength SCORE itself?

Interesting. Very interesting.

Effectively, yes, but not by description:

Headband of Alluring Charisma (Game Master's Guide)
This silver headband is decorated with red and
orange gems. When worn, it gives you a +1 bonus on
CHA checks and CHA-based skill checks, and to save
DCs based on your CHA (such as channel energy).

Cat's Grace (Player Pack pdf)
Your touched ally gets more agile. The ally gets a +2 bonus on
ranged attack rolls, melee attack rolls using Weapon Finesse,
initiative checks, Reflex saving throws, Acrobatics checks, Disable
Device checks, Ride checks, Stealth checks, and to Armor Class.

The spells are identical to the existing spells, you just have less page turning to figure it out.

Items are a little different because they apparently don't give you the permanent benefits ever.


Kthulhu wrote:
Reckless wrote:
Similarly, Ability Boosts are dealt with by granting a bonus to what the stat affects rather than the stat itself.

Interesting. I think I like this better. So what is a Belt of Strength +6 in Full PF would be a Belt of Strength +3 in the BB, but the +3 applies to your Strength MODIFIER instead of to the strength SCORE itself?

Interesting. Very interesting.

The new edition of (d20-based) Mutants and Masterminds does this. Instead of having a 20 strength and a subsequent +5 modifier on everything based off of strength, your strength is now "5". Similarly they rolled the equivalent to BAB into two new "base" stats, "Fighting" and... something for ranged attacks, I forget.

Not sure how I like it there either.


No favored classes!


Dragnmoon wrote:


Combat

  • No Attack of Opportunities
  • No Charging on Surprise
  • No Combat Maneuvers or Combat Defense
  • No Concentration checks to cast spells, you cannot cast spells when you are next to an enemy unless it is a touch attack spell

What about missile/ranged attacks? Is there a restriction on archers shooting while standing next to an enemy?

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules Subscriber

This is an extension of "less feats" but armor proficiencies are essentially class features now. Either your class can use a certain armor or it cannot.


Banesfinger wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:


Combat

  • No Attack of Opportunities
  • No Charging on Surprise
  • No Combat Maneuvers or Combat Defense
  • No Concentration checks to cast spells, you cannot cast spells when you are next to an enemy unless it is a touch attack spell
What about missile/ranged attacks? Is there a restriction on archers shooting while standing next to an enemy?

Hero's Handbook p. 56

You can use a ranged weapon to attack an enemy as a standard action. The enemy has to be at least 10 feet (2 squares) from you.

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