Hi everyone!
I was invited back to judge RPG Superstar this year (2012) and I am already getting excited! I know, I've got issues...
But I was thinking about something that I thought I would ask all of you if you think this might be fun.
As many of you know, I recently started Legendary Games. For those who haven't seen it, here is the LINK
One of our products, our first actually, is the Treasury of the Macabre--a collection of 30 gothic themed magic items.
Here is a question I posed in the product thread for our Treasury of the Macabre: Question.
You know, as it is getting closer to RPG Superstar time again this year I started to think about our Treasury of the Macabre.
You guys who have entered Superstar or payed attention to the contest likely know Jason and Neil and Boomer from RPG Superstar. You know how tough it is to make even ONE item that is superstar quality.
Think about this--Jason wrote all 30 of these items for the Treasury in about a week. Now, some are good examples of good, serviceable items that would make a magic item book (and did) and may not be superstar quality, but there are a couple in there that would easily make the cut to top 32 in my view. That is scary, that a guy could make that many in one week. Jason is just a totally amazing talent. Sure, he got some feedback from the Legendary Games Design Team, but these were his seeds, his ideas.
So I was thinking, maybe I should start a thread to discuss an analyze the items from the Treasury to see which ones you all think are Superstar quality? Interesting.
So, should I start such a thread? [not trying to sell the product, just a fun discussion from those who might have bought it and I know a good number of you did]
Sure, not all of the items are wondrous items. But it might be fun to use them as a discussion point for the upcoming contest. Please understand this is for those people who have bought the product. I am NOT trying to use this to sell the product and no one should think that getting the Treasury would in any way give someone an advantage in Superstar, it won't. I just thought that those who had it might want to discuss it in terms of Superstar. Or maybe not, maybe I am just a dork.
Let me know what you think please. :)
Clark
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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I think it could be a valid discussion. (Welcome back to judging.)
The caveat is, as always, that 'superstar' is always subjective.
Maybe take two particular magic items, one you feel is 'superstar' and one you feel is not* and just ask people what qualities make one superstar and the other isn't.
I'd not even say which one you give the 'superstar' tag to.
Two things I've noticed in the past in the critiques is the difference between 'useful' and 'superstar'. I mean a ring of protection +2 is useful, but the cocoon cloak is superstar.** Why?
I'd enjoy such a conversation.
*
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I'll post a couple from the Treasury and we can discuss them.
Other people are free to post excerpts from the Treasury in this thread for purposes of discussion.
Clark
Here is one:
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 7th
Slot —; Price 18,000 gp; Weight 3 lb.
Description
This crown of black iron, set with polished and rune-carved shards of bone, allows the wearer to converse with the dead as if using speak with plants to converse with plant creatures (intelligent undead) or normal plants (corpses, skulls, mindless undead). The crown does not make undead automatically friendly, but it does enable the wearer to affect undead with language-dependent effects, even if they are mind-affecting, and it grants a +5 competence bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy checks with undead creatures.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, tongues; Cost 9,000 gp
Here is another:
Aura faint abjuration; CL 3rd
Slot —; Price 5,400 gp; Weight 3 lbs.
Description
This heavy metallic disk is carved in fanciful or frightful likeness of a humanoid or monstrous face, with a heavy ring in its mouth. If attached to a door, it seals the door with an arcane lock and wards it with a phantom trap. The fearful knocker opens and closes the door by a command word. A creature touching the door without speaking the command word is affected as scare (DC 13 Will partial). The fearful knocker cannot be removed from the door except by the command word, destroying the door, or temporarily negating its power with dispel magic.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, arcane lock, open/close, phantom trap, scare; Cost 2,700 gp
I'll bite.
It's been a while since I ripped an item apart so bear with me ;>
I had to read the item 3 times to get what the major benefit of the item truely was - so either it has really been a while since I ripped items apart or the lead was buried. I am going with the latter.
This is the major part: but it does enable the wearer to affect undead with language-dependent effects
So if I was judging and had a bad day this item would not make it.
Description: adequate - good
Powers: speak with plants reference threw me off due to the relative uncoolness of the power. mind affecting language dependent effects - yeah that is pretty cool to have (too bad it was somewhat buried). +5 bonuses, yawn but appropriate.
Conclusion: effective item, but is it superstar? No, this is the one that could easily make it to a book of items -> it does not wow me enough.
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 7th
Slot —; Price 18,000 gp; Weight 3 lb.Description
This crown of black iron, set with polished and rune-carved shards of bone, allows the wearer to converse with the dead as if using speak with plants to converse with plant creatures (intelligent undead) or normal plants (corpses, skulls, mindless undead). The crown does not make undead automatically friendly, but it does enable the wearer to affect undead with language-dependent effects, even if they are mind-affecting, and it grants a +5 competence bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy checks with undead creatures.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, tongues; Cost 9,000 gp
While I am at it
OK, a little more excited about this item.
good execution of theme -> knocker, doors, open, close, seal. Yup, I am feeling it, so yeah this is a pretty fine item.
The bad thing is that this would fall in the camp item category, nice to have but there are many things that are more 'sexy' than this one at this price.
Description: good
Powers: rocking the theme
game use for a PC: -1
game use for a NPC: +1
Another pretty good item that made it to a book of items ;<, not Superstar in my opinion.
Purely from a design perspective I value the knocker more, far better execution.
Here is another:
Aura faint abjuration; CL 3rd
Slot —; Price 5,400 gp; Weight 3 lbs.Description
This heavy metallic disk is carved in fanciful or frightful likeness of a humanoid or monstrous face, with a heavy ring in its mouth. If attached to a door, it seals the door with an arcane lock and wards it with a phantom trap. The fearful knocker opens and closes the door by a command word. A creature touching the door without speaking the command word is affected as scare (DC 13 Will partial). The fearful knocker cannot be removed from the door except by the command word, destroying the door, or temporarily negating its power with dispel magic.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, arcane lock, open/close, phantom trap, scare; Cost 2,700 gp
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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Crown of Deadspeech threw me for a loop in its description. I'm also not quite sure how well it bypasses the 'make speak with dead useless tricks'. It is niche specific. (would be a lot more useful in Carrion Crown than in Curse of the Crimson Throne for example.) It also has the X of Y trap. Potental to be voted for, but nothing really makes it leap out. It does have the potential to be a GM headache though, as it doesn't seem to have a limit. ("Let's go to the graveyard and talk to everything!")
Image-wise it evokes for me the crown the wraith wore in Fellowship of the Ring, when Frodo saw the wraiths with the ring on.
Fearful Knocker
Again a name problem, juvinile jokes abound! But that might be regional and can't be helped.
I'm not clear if you can cast dispel magic on the door to disarm the knocker, as it is only going to be seen on one side of the door. It is a 'camping item' But I think it is mitigate by a) it adds a level of security, not bypasses a threat completely and b) there's no alarm or anything if it's triggered.
Plus I get the image of the Jacob Marley style knocker animation.
If I were to call either 'superstar' it would be the second one.
Those are really good comments! Keep them coming!
I, personally, LOVED the use of speak with plants as a creative way around things with the crown. Plus, I love when people use existing mechanics rather than invent clunky new ones. Had this been a submission, I would have kept is just because of the creative use of speak with plants. That tells me the person is a designer and understands how that all works.
That's why I thought it might be fun to talk about all this in advance of this year's competition since I felt there were some things Jason did that highlight things I think the judges look for, like the great use of speak with plants. I guarantee there would have been a fun discussion about that choice in the item thread in the judges chambers on this one.
@Matt, the Treasury is limited, to a degree, because of the limited scope of the items to a gothic theme. That constrains design. BUT it also highlights how selection of a theme can help you find cool ideas. I thought that was important to highlight. Jason was forced to think about theme for this product, but maybe you as a contestant should think about theme in advance of designing your item, too. That could be a helpful way to find inspiration.
@crown of deadspeech - I was a little thrown by the use of speak with plants in a description here, too. And then, you include intelligent undead who are probably already able to speak. What about a vampire that speaks only in Ignan? Would the crown translate? I would guess so, because of the use of tongues in creation, but it feels a little unclear on that aspect because speak with plants follows the assumption that most or all plant creatures can't already speak.
The bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy against undead is cool though. And I love the physical description of the item, but the primary power isn't superstar-stellar. Kinda cool, sure, but not top 32.
@fearful knocker - It's a neat item, but practically no PC would ever actually want to buy one. I mean, it's arcane lock for a door with a cool knocker attached that scares people. I could see lots of use for this in the home of a creepy NPC(perhaps combined with animate image to make the knocker speak), but I also see this as something that gets sold by 99% of players 99% of the time, and that's not superstar either.
Nice!
congratulations and welcome back Clark. :)
Jason: these are awesome. Kudos! one week? I am impressed!
The crown: Description is awesome, (concrete and evocotive). Speak with plants threw me too, mostly because I keep thinking why not 'speak with dead' spell. An ability to mind-spell someone immune to mind effects is the kicker though. That is not speak with dead and probably the superstar gem of the item.
The knocker: again awesome imagery.
If only only one is SS, I'd vote the crown, but if they both made it (at least to the keep thread) I would not be surprised.
@fearful knocker - It's a neat item, but practically no PC would ever actually want to buy one. I mean, it's arcane lock for a door with a cool knocker attached that scares people. I could see lots of use for this in the home of a creepy NPC(perhaps combined with animate image to make the knocker speak), but I also see this as something that gets sold by 99% of players 99% of the time, and that's not superstar either.
I agree with you. Which is why this makes a GREAT item for discussion as Superstar is coming up. The fearful knocker (which I selected from the product for this reason) is a great example of an excellent magic item that would easily make it into a published work of magic items (and it did), BUT it likely would have some difficulty in RPG Superstar because it is really a GM item not a player item. This is an item that, from a design standpoint, you really can't find a flaw with--its good, usable, not over done, rules tight, great format, really cool. BUT it may not make the Superstar cut. I dont think we can stress enough how people have to look at the item the submit for this contest. I was hoping our stuff from the Treasury could provide a good base for discussion.
Clark
Any other ones from the Treasury of the Macabre that would be fun to discuss?
Marathon Voter Season 6
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Let me know what you think please. :)
If I were judging:
- The Crown of Deadspeech would make me want to see what the designer could do further on in the competition; particularly in terms of mechanics. I also think that such an item really defines the PC/NPC wearing it; they are going to end up with a pretty funky view of the world that would translate into some memorable role-playing encounters. In short, brilliant design.
- The Fearful Knocker is interesting but does not have the long-term design punch of the Crown and the name is going to split opinion. The item's image is immediately accessible and trades upon a certain "coolness" factor, even though the item itself is most likely "just a camping item". In the rough and tumble of superstar, there are going to be items like the Migrus Locker and Eye of the Void that are cooler, and items with more imaginative design and function such as the Tankard of the Cheerful Duelist and the Charts of the Shadow Voyage. [These four are most likely my favourite items from Superstar thus far - all brilliantly memorable in their own way.] As such I can imagine it making the initial cut but getting beaten into the top 32 by more "Superstar-worthy" items. Having said that, I can see the Fearful Knocker going straight into my campaign.
Thank you Clark for starting the thread - I think I'm going to have to check this product out too. :)
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
My pleasure! I love RPG Superstar and I love the design issues that it raises (as you all know from the insane number of posts from me each year). Discussing the issues that make a successful entry is just plain helpful, I think. Its better than just talking about what NOT to do.
That's why the crown is a good example of something TO do--use a spell in a unique way. That would get you noticed.
My pleasure! I love RPG Superstar and I love the design issues that it raises (as you all know from the insane number of posts from me each year). Discussing the issues that make a successful entry is just plain helpful, I think. Its better than just talking about what NOT to do.
That's why the crown is a good example of something TO do--use a spell in a unique way. That would get you noticed.
I agree that this thread is far more helpful than all the previous threads that discussed what not to do -> showing is far better than telling.
All of this got me thinking about this year's entry, just thought of it, so thanks Clark for the creative kickstart.