Forgive me if this has been discussed, but I'm playing in this AP and don't want to be spoiled so I didn't do a search.
I made my PC with a few assumptions about the ages of the NPCs and was surprised when my DM said Ameiko's birthyear was given as 4689!
RotRL begain in 4707 and said Ameiko had returned from an adventuring career and bought the Rusty Dragon six years previously. When she was twelve?!?
What the heck, Paizo? I do hope we're not falling prey to the myth that a human woman of thirty can't still be an attractive option for a romance, especially considering that Sandru at "a few years from middle age" is a possible romantic partner for 1st-level PCs who could be sixteen by random roll. (Although Ameiko apparently started adventuring at the age of 10 or so.)
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What we have here is, if I may borrow a phrase from the Doctor, an attack of "timey-wimey stuff." The write-up for the Rusty Dragon in RotRL says Ameiko bought the place 6 years before (4701) but her bio in Jade Regent says she bought the place in late 4706/early 4707. So it would seem that in both APs, she has been doing her thing at the Rusty Dragon for 5/6 years even though they take place 5 years apart (officially).
I would say that the new, more detailed story should supersede the old. (I would change the "six years" in RotRL to "six months" and everything works out fine. But you aren't GMing, so that is an issue.) Maybe we could get the good Mr. Jacobs in here to sort us out.
As Joana's GM, I have to say I agree with her that Ameiko is way too young. I didn't pay close attention to the dates when I read her history, so I didn't notice the age discrepancy until some of the players started comparing their characters' ages. I personally think it makes more sense to have Ameiko born in 4683 and have all the pre-Rise of the Runelords events take place 6 years earlier.
I hadn't put all that together--but it's a good question! I'll be interested to see what answers come through.
...Sandru at "a few years from middle age" is a possible romantic partner for 1st-level PCs who could be sixteen by random roll.
Bear in mind though that in Pathfinder, 'middle age' for a human is 35. Sandru isn't that old--although average life expectancy for that era of human history is probably somewhere around the forties to fifties, so it makes sense in that context.
My gaming group vacillates between believable/historically-inspired portrayals of e.g. life expectancy and the role of women, and the standard modern fantasy approach of just transferring modern culture to a mediaeval/renaissance milieu. I like both, but prefer to know what I'm in for first, and prefer to GM the latter. There's enough work in developing plots and challenging encounters without trying to worry about historical verisimilitude at the same time!
I hadn't put all that together--but it's a good question! I'll be interested to see what answers come through.
...Sandru at "a few years from middle age" is a possible romantic partner for 1st-level PCs who could be sixteen by random roll.Bear in mind though that in Pathfinder, 'middle age' for a human is 35. Sandru isn't that old--although average life expectancy for that era of human history is probably somewhere around the forties to fifties, so it makes sense in that context.
Yeah, but that's the point: if Sandru, at thirty-three-ish, can still be an attractive romantic ideal for a teenager, why does Ameiko have to be retconned to 22? I hope there's a better answer than "older men are hotter than older women."
when Ameiko was adventuring, she was appearantly the tagalong child.
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Here's my own Kaijitsu Timeline—it got cut, alas, for space from Jade Regent. There's a certain amount of "adjustment" going on here—I had to make those adjustments mostly based on the fact that the times we'd set for Ameiko related stuff and the times we'd set for Brinewall related stuff weren't quite exactly as in sync as I'd hoped they would be back in Pathfinder #1 and #3.
I'm spoilering it because there's some pretty significant Jade Regent and Rise of the Runelords spoilers built into the timeline. I'm also truncating it to start at Ameiko's birth in the year 4689. Which makes her 22 years old at the start of Jade Regent, and 18 years old at the start of Rise of the Runelords... ASSUMING you played that campaign in your own Jade Regent history. We don't necessarily assume that RotR started in 4707, after all...
She first ran away from home to Magnimar at age 13, then returned at age 14 and stayed in Sandpoint for a few years, then went on her adventure at age 16, then "retired" from that life and bought the Rusty Dragon at age 17, in any event.
Date Event
4689 Ameiko Kaijitsu is born to Lonjiku and Atsuii. She is destined to be the only one of Lonjiku’s legitimate children, and thus the only Kaijitsu scion with a legitimate claim to the Jade Throne in Minkai.
4702 After a disastrous attempt to reconcile the bad blood between her half-brother and her father results in her brother striking her, Ameiko runs away from home shortly before the events of the “Late Unpleasantness” bring tragedy to Sandpoint. Atsuii Kaijitsu dies during these events of a mysterious fall from the sea cliff near her home.
4703 Word of her mother’s death causes Ameiko to return home, but she finds home as unpleasant as ever. Tsuto walks out on the family at the funeral, leaving Ameiko alone with her bitter father.
4705 Aged 16, Ameiko leaves home for the second time to take up life as an adventurer with several like-minded youths. Her adventuring career lasts just over a year.
4706 Rich from her adventuring success, Ameiko returns to Sandpoint to purchase an old tavern, “The Rusty Dragon,” and scandalizes her father by becoming a bartender and tavern keeper.
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Yeah, but that's the point: if Sandru, at thirty-three-ish, can still be an attractive romantic ideal for a teenager, why does Ameiko have to be retconned to 22? I hope there's a better answer than "older men are hotter than older women."I hadn't put all that together--but it's a good question! I'll be interested to see what answers come through.
...Sandru at "a few years from middle age" is a possible romantic partner for 1st-level PCs who could be sixteen by random roll.Bear in mind though that in Pathfinder, 'middle age' for a human is 35. Sandru isn't that old--although average life expectancy for that era of human history is probably somewhere around the forties to fifties, so it makes sense in that context.
Don't forget there's also Koya Mvashti in that same article–a woman well over 60 years who we've also set up as a romantic interest in the same adventure. So by that reasoning, are we saying "older women are hotter than older men?"
We're not.
The reason Ameiko is the age she is is mostly due to the fact that there's a LOT of backstory that has to happen relatively recently with her family line in order for Jade Regent's events to play out, and we've already established a fair amount of those events (such as the loss of Brinewall) as happening pretty recently. And maybe a little bit because there's a bit of Arya Stark in her as well, I guess...
Anyway, all of this is a great example of not only why we try to avoid pinning down dates for APs in-world, but also why it took us so many APs to finally take a shot at something that could well be a sequel.
You can run Jade Regent before Runelords, after all.
And if you've run Runelords, chances are good that fiddling with Ameiko's age is going to be the LEAST complex of your concerns making the assumptions we make with the start of Jade Regent mesh with how things actually played out in your Runelords campaign.
If, on the other hand, you run Jade Regent without assuming that the events in Rise of the Runelords took place... then you don't need to worry about that (now inaccurate) quote in RotR that Ameiko bought her tavern six years ago.
In the upcoming hardcover reprint of "Rise of the Runelords" well be fixing that reference as well, of course...
Thank you for responding, James. I assume when the anniversary hardcover of RotRL comes out, all will be adjusted to the "new" timeline?
I'm actually playing in a Runelords game now, as well as starting Jade Regent, so the discrepancies were especially glaring.
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Thank you for responding, James. I assume when the anniversary hardcover of RotRL comes out, all will be adjusted to the "new" timeline?
I'm actually playing in a Runelords game now, as well as starting Jade Regent, so the discrepancies were especially glaring.
Yes. (I was editing my previous post to say just that as you posted your post.)
We'll also be setting up RotR to be as time-neutral as possible, since that just makes it easier for a GM to set it whenever he wants.
Playing in a Runelords game AND a Jade Regent game simultaneously is really an unusual situation, and frankly, not one I'd imagined when I wrote the advice in the foreword to Pathfinder #49. That raises all sorts of weird questions... like do the PCs in the Runelords game know about the PCs in the Jade Regent one? Do they meet each other? If they don't, then you should absolutely extend that limitation to the NPCs—what happens to Ameiko in one should not reflect her fate in the other, and she can be 22 years old in both cases.
Playing in a Runelords game AND a Jade Regent game simultaneously is really an unusual situation, and frankly, not one I'd imagined when I wrote the advice in the foreword to Pathfinder #49. That raises all sorts of weird questions... like do the PCs in the Runelords game know about the PCs in the Jade Regent one? Do they meet each other? If they don't, then you should absolutely extend that limitation to the NPCs—what happens to Ameiko in one should not reflect her fate in the other, and she can be 22 years old in both cases.
While I can't imagine it's terribly common to play both simultaneously, I'm sure I'm not the only one in play-by-posts of several APs at once. And I would think there would be quite a few people who will be playing Jade Regent as a sequel to Runelords, with PCs who are aware of the history of the Heroes of Sandpoint (the players' previous PCs) and Ameiko during the time.
Or maybe Ameiko's just lying about her age.... ;)
While I can't imagine it's terribly common to play both simultaneously, I'm sure I'm not the only one in play-by-posts of several APs at once.
But are you playing simultaneously with GMs who use each other's continuity?
Most contemporaneous campaigns are basically alternate realities.
For any groups who play either campaign sequentially and in the same continuity, it is easy enough to adjust her age to match as needed.
While I can't imagine it's terribly common to play both simultaneously, I'm sure I'm not the only one in play-by-posts of several APs at once.But are you playing simultaneously with GMs who use each other's continuity?
No. However, I did think it reasonable to use the background information about Sandpoint from Pathfinder #1 to create a character from the same town four years later. Once the new Runelords hardback with the retconned timeline is out, it won't be that big an issue anymore; most people know that newer material trumps older. Since the Jade Regent's player's guide didn't provide an age for Ameiko, it was a bit of a shock to discover that her age had been changed.
For my game, the GM will make a call which timeline we're going with, and that will be that, but it threw a monkey wrench into character creation.
My Jade Regent PbP players will be making cameo appearances as 5 years younger versions of themselves at some point during my Runelords PbP..
And maybe a little bit because there's a bit of Arya Stark in her as well, I guess...
And that's all the characterization I need to make her awesome. Harharhar. Many thanks! :)
Here's my own Kaijitsu Timeline—it got cut, alas, for space from Jade Regent. There's a certain amount of "adjustment" going on here—I had to make those adjustments mostly based on the fact that the times we'd set for Ameiko related stuff and the times we'd set for Brinewall related stuff weren't quite exactly as in sync as I'd hoped they would be back in Pathfinder #1 and #3.
Random question based on the adjusted timeline. Spoilers, just in case...
And, for anyone who dislikes that Ameiko is a bit too young... kill her! You have other options.
RotRL begain in 4707 and said Ameiko had returned from an adventuring career and bought the Rusty Dragon six years previously. When she was twelve?!?
A mite young, perhaps, but there's always early bloomers.
What the heck, Paizo? I do hope we're not falling prey to the myth that a human woman of thirty can't still be an attractive option for a romance
What the heck right back? This sounds like you're personally offended by this.
Before you start burning Paizo golems in effigy, note that just because there's a 22-year-old as a possible romance doesn't mean they think women in their thirties are hags. I think their CEO, who's over thirty and female, would have something to say about that.
There is an old woman as possible romance partner in the very same document.
And note that the "age threshold" (or whatever you call them) of your time and place aren't necessarily a valid benchmark for fantasy world.
There were times where 12-year-olds were having children that was the norm. Of course, there were times where a human's chances of seeing 30 winters were rather slim.
Even the standard PFRPG rules assume that humans go around adventuring as early as 16. In some real world countries that exist today, they're not allowed to drive, or drink any kind of alcohol, to marry or even engage in intercourse. In other times and maybe places, they had been sent to war before that.
So the thing is: Even if there were no option of 30 or older (which is totally not true, since Koya is over 60 years, as has been mentioned, and Shalelu is twice that age.) it would not mean Paizo is pushing the Lolita agenda.
Actually, with Runelords being (essentially) sold out today, I think that in the future, more folks will be playing IT as the sequel to Jade Regent once the compiled hardcover version comes out next June.
It would be great if there was a paragraph or two in the Hardcover that could address this. I plan on running the revised ROTR and it will be after Jade Regent. Thanks!
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Actually, with Runelords being (essentially) sold out today, I think that in the future, more folks will be playing IT as the sequel to Jade Regent once the compiled hardcover version comes out next June.It would be great if there was a paragraph or two in the Hardcover that could address this. I plan on running the revised ROTR and it will be after Jade Regent. Thanks!
Jade Regent already kind of provides this support, but we'll probably say something in the HC of Runelords' introduction similar.
Jade Regent already kind of provides this support, but we'll probably say something in the HC of Runelords' introduction similar.Actually, with Runelords being (essentially) sold out today, I think that in the future, more folks will be playing IT as the sequel to Jade Regent once the compiled hardcover version comes out next June.It would be great if there was a paragraph or two in the Hardcover that could address this. I plan on running the revised ROTR and it will be after Jade Regent. Thanks!
Will the HC of Runelords be upgraded to PF rules? I'd buy it even if it wasn't but would love it it was. As well is it just the adventure or the whole AP that would be in the HC?
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Will the HC of Runelords be upgraded to PF rules? I'd buy it even if it wasn't but would love it it was. As well is it just the adventure or the whole AP that would be in the HC?Jade Regent already kind of provides this support, but we'll probably say something in the HC of Runelords' introduction similar.Actually, with Runelords being (essentially) sold out today, I think that in the future, more folks will be playing IT as the sequel to Jade Regent once the compiled hardcover version comes out next June.It would be great if there was a paragraph or two in the Hardcover that could address this. I plan on running the revised ROTR and it will be after Jade Regent. Thanks!
Yes. That's part of the reason we're doing it in the first place. The HC will have all six adventures plus those support articles that are necessary to support the adventure (something like the Sandpoint article would be in there, for example, but not the deity articles or the dragon article).