Catoblepas is what size?


Rules Questions


8 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is the catoblepas in the Bestiary II supposed to be Large or Huge? He has the space and reach of a Huge creature, but all its other stats indicate that it is only Large.

So...which is it?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does nobody know?

Dark Archive

Ravingdork wrote:
Does nobody know?

I KNOW!!!!!!

Grand Lodge

Ravingdork wrote:
Does nobody know?

Since the designer of the creature hasn't posted, no, nobody here can say what it was supposed to be. It is a Large Magical Beast. The catoblepas has always had (since before it had game rules) a roughly cow-sized body and a long, thin neck, so I believe its reach could be correct and is a special ability for this creature, but its 15' space is an error.

Liberty's Edge

The size is listed as large. The attacks are calculated as large. The armor class is calculated as large.

The size and reach are for huge.

I think it is reasonable to decide that the size and reach are the error. Or, at least, that's a reasonable houserule. By RAW, it is a Large creature that merely has the size and reach of a tall Huge creature. :)

Spoiler:
Yes, that's a joke.


I ran it once (only) as Large with Huge Reach and ability to peek around corners, etc. This was to reflect to 'long, thin' neck. The PCs tried to drown it, but the head popped to the surface. Much fun!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

Is the catoblepas in the Bestiary II supposed to be Large or Huge? He has the space and reach of a Huge creature, but all its other stats indicate that it is only Large.

So...which is it?

My transmuter is still waiting for an answer as this would make an AMAZING beast shape IV form.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Has this issue been resolved yet?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

BUMP. Still waiting for an answer.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

In 3.0 and 3.5 it was Huge (just checked the old Monster Manual II and the 3.5 Update Booklet).

However, the PF revision certainly seems to have been written with it being only Large. If I had to guess, a copy/paste error regarding space and reach.


Hitting the FAQ on this one. I have no idea, sadly.


News?


A Tall Large creature is typically 8-15 feet tall while a Horse, a Long Large creature is 5-6 feet tall at the shoulder so we can presume that a Long Large height threshold is half that of a Tall Large; 4-7 feet at the shoulder if it's quadrupedal in nature. Thus we can presume that, if the stat of being Large is accurate, a Catoblepas is 4-7 feet tall at the shoulder (similar to a Horse). However, the Catoblepas has a very long neck so, despite normal Large creatures needing only 10x10 feet of tactical space (remember, a Horse is not 10' long, it needs 10' of tactical space), the Catoblepas requires 15 feet of tactical space and since creatures' tactical space is always square due to lack of facing rules, this becomes 15x15. Furthermore, its penalty to AC and attacks are calculated based on the Large size category. Hence, Large is the proper category and the 15' spacing and reach are exceptions to the standard. EZPZ.


A creatures space doesn't work like that. A Large creature always has a 10 foot space. A Huge creature always has a 15 foot space. There are no exceptions. If a catoblepas really needed a 15' space, then it would be Huge, not Large.

Reach, however, can be different. Its entirely possible for the catoblepas to have a 15' reach despite only being Large size. However, looking at the picture, its neck doesn't look long enough for that.

Sczarni

Paizo just released a Catoblepas figurine recently. How big is it?

Shadow Lodge

Maybe it's a large creature that has an extended reach due to the neck. As for the space, perhaps that was the error, possibly caused by someone quickly looking at the reach and assigning it the equivalent space.


Nefreet wrote:
Paizo just released a Catoblepas figurine recently. How big is it?

Says base size is Large. (Just under the name and rating.)

So the catoblepas should have a space and reach of 10'.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:
Paizo just released a Catoblepas figurine recently. How big is it?

It is large.

Silver Crusade

His mini is only large size if that halps you any.

Sczarni

Jeraa wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Paizo just released a Catoblepas figurine recently. How big is it?

Says base size is Large. (Just under the name and rating.)

So the catoblepas should have a space and reach of 10'.

Well, it could still have a Reach of 15', even if its space is only 10'.

Just look at the Elasmosaurus.


Quote:
Quote:
So the catoblepas should have a space and reach of 10'.

Well, it could still have a Reach of 15', even if its space is only 10'.

Just look at the Elasmosaurus.

But it makes sense for the elasmosaurus. Do an internet search for an elasmosaurus and look at the length of its neck. Now look at the catoblepas. It has a short neck. It looks about the same size as a horses. It doesn't make sense to have a longer than normal reach for the catoblepas like it does for the elasmosaurus.

Sczarni

Catoblepas, since 2nd Ed (maybe earlier), has always had an elongated neck.

It's actually quite similar to the Elasmosaurus.


Nefreet wrote:

Catoblepas, since 2nd Ed (maybe earlier), has always had an elongated neck.

It's actually quite similar to the Elasmosaurus.

Pathfinder isn't 2nd Edition AD&D. Both the creatures picture in Bestiary 2 and its miniature have a short neck.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

3 people marked this as a favorite.

The catoblepas should have a Space of 10 ft and reach 10 ft. Everything else, including its size adjustments to attacks and size, are correct for it being a Large magical beast.

It's just space and reach that have a typo.

Sczarni

Duly noted. Thanks James!

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