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Below I have compiled a list of ALL the differences between the ninja's assassinate ability and the assassin's death attack ability that I could find. Please look them over before deciding whether or not the ninja is a better assassin than the assassin. I've emphasized any row in which the ASSASSIN holds the advantage.
Otherwise, this is simply another discussion thread as to which ability is more powerful (or which is more balanced) and whether or not the assassin will be invalidated should the ninja be published as is.
- A ninja can activate his ability in two less standard actions (effectively one round versus three).
- A ninja can assassinate from range, whereas the assassin has to be using a melee weapon.
- A ninja does not have to take assassinate (instead going to another ability), whereas the less versatile assassin is forced to take death attack.
- A ninja has 5 more levels to put towards the Death DC (ninja 20 vs rogue 5/assassin 10/master spy 5) though the assassin gets to add his ENTIRE assassin level rather than half. This means they are exactly tied except for the instance where an assassin also takes levels of master spy.
- A ninja MUST cause his opponent to lose his Dexterity bonus during a sneak attack, whereas the assassin need only qualify for sneak attack. (Note that this allows for flanking in the RARE circumstances that the target doesn't recognize his armed flankers as enemies).
- A ninja's assassinate ability can only kill, whereas an assassin's death attack can ALSO paralyze.
- A ninja cannot gain assassinate until 10th-level, whereas an assassin can have death attack as early as 6th-level, a full four levels earlier.
- A ninja's assassinate ability is Charisma-based whereas the assassin's death attack ability is Intelligence-based. (Unless you are going the sorcerer/arcane trickster route, most roleplayers seem to think of Intelligence as being the better ability score to boost.)
- A ninja who fails to assassinate his target cannot try again for an entire day, whereas an assassin can try again as early as 3 rounds later. (Though that is unlikely as he is clearly a recognized threat at that point.)
After hearing about the assassin's relative uselessness for YEARS before this playtest, I personally believe that the assassin's death attack ability should be upgraded via errata to include ALL of the strengths of the ninja's assassinate ability while giving up none of its own existing strengths (such as being based off of Intelligence and having the non-kill option), essentially leaving assassinate as a slightly weaker form of death attack. That might actually allow the assassin to remain the top tier single target killer, as he should be, while making them relatively balanced as PC characters (rather than only really being realized as NPCs).
- A ninja has 5 more levels to put towards the Death DC (ninja 20 vs rogue 5/assassin 10/master spy 5).
Ninja's get half their level to the death DC not their whole level. So actualy the rogue 5/assassin 10/master spy 5 has 5 levels on them and they're exactly equal with a rogue 10/assassin 10.
Torger
- A ninja has 5 more levels to put towards the Death DC (ninja 20 vs rogue 5/assassin 10/master spy 5).
Ninja's get half their level to the death DC not their whole level. So actualy the rogue 5/assassin 10/master spy 5 has 5 levels on them and they're exactly equal with a rogue 10/assassin 10.
Torger
Thanks for pointing that out. I've fixed the OP.
Man, the more I look at actual side by side comparisons, the more it looks to me like the assassin is *gasp* the head dog when it comes to assassinating people after all. ;P
So far we have the ninja with 3 advantages VS the assassin's 6 advantages (though two or three of those aren't really advantages as noted above).
Please let me know if I've overlooked anything else.
good stuff
Since Assassinate does not allow for flanking, its entirely possible that characters with uncanny dodge are by RAW immune to Assassinate, depending on whether you could allow a feint as part of an Assassinate attempt.
I personally think its better for both abilities to be the same (excluding their DC stat). It makes it simpler for adjudicating and there doesn't need to be a sticky of the above information. I also think that the once per day mechanic is not appropriate for extraordinary abilities like Assassinate. While its not written in stone, the standard has always seemed to be that extraordinary abilities tend to be less powerful than supernatural ones, but they can be used all day long (for the most part).
All that said, I think its useful to keep in mind that both of these abilities can usually only be used once per encounter, at the most, depending on your reading of " The death attack fails if the target detects the assassin or recognizes the assassin as an enemy". But that's OK. Its really meant to be an opening move. If the assassininja is lucky, then they get to take out one combatant straight out. If not, well they use sneak attack as the next best thing.
Ninja can do it from range, extended range if they take the talent that does so.
and the save will usually be higher for the beginning levels while the assassin pulls ahead at the end.
I searched for this thread because I noticed the disparity between the ninja's (better, I think) assassinate ability.
I think it's hard enough to justify taking the Assassin prestige as a rogue. Why make both the Rogue class and Assassin prestige class less attractive by giving the Ninja "Assassinate" as a optional class ability? This bothers me because the Ninja should be an optional class, not the go-to class for stealthy sneak-attack PCs.
If this class doesn't get taken down a peg, then I agree that Paizo should publish errata fixing the Rogue and Assassin. What do you guys think about either giving the rogue and optional "Death Attack" ability as a Rogue Talent, or making the Assassin an Archetype instead of a prestige class?
I'll leave off with this though, if your new class requires you to go back and change existing classes -- and as a disclaimer, I'm not totally convinced that this is the case with the Ninja, as I haven't made one as a PC or NPC -- isn't that a pretty clear indication that your new class is overpowered and broken?
I dunno.