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For a M:tG Setting and Game.
Heres the Idea: Ditch the d20 magic system, and the existing caster classes.
Work in M:tG Cards.
- Players build their own decks. More strict rules on deck building than in actual M;tG(some things dont translate well into an RPG).
- Use Magic Set Editor for some the regular spells we want to keep, in an altered or unaltered state, on Magic Cards.
- ALL characters get a deck of them of Spells. Non Casters are effectively Gishes.
- New caster class: Better at it considerably (Somehow. Maybe a bigger hand or something).
Creature Cards: Summon Spells
Power: BAB?
Toughness = HD, die type by Creature Type, AC by creature type(not sure yet)?
Maybe have a chart to look up the values by creature race?
Damage Spells: Amount of Damage = # of d6es?
What do you guys think? Any suggestions for building a new Magic magic system?
Casting a spell would be a standard action for sorceries, and a full round action for summons. I dunno about artifacts or enchantments. Swift Action for Instants.
I'd allow proxies, the CCG Element wouldnt be important to the game.
No Spell per day, some other way to limit things. Maybe it gets harder and harder to cast them if you dont rest? Mana cost changes the DC somehow maybe?
I think it would take a lot of work. Thematically, I like Magic the Gathering a lot. I'm a Vorthos through and through. :)
I like the idea of a MtG roleplaying game but it would have to be built quite differently. The characters might be 'coloured', instead of alignment or maybe even class. And perhaps casting spells would be based on points rather than Vancian, tracking how much mana you have for each of the colours.
For a quick conversion, you could put some of the schools of magic or particular spells into the individual colours and let people play a 'red mage' or blue or green or so forth. Red gets evocation, black gets necromancy, green gets transmutation, blue gets illusion, divination and enchantment? It doesn't translate directly very well.
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It would have to be built quite differently, but that's what I'm proposing as the idea.
Colors instead of Alignments: Yeah, I figured. I'd need to figure out what it means to have multicolored characters (black/white, green/red, etc)..
Casting spells wouldn't be vancian. I'd come up with another system, as I intend to have everyone slinging spells to some degree, and they'd have a hand of cards for their spells, and an actual deck of magic cards. I was thinking either track mana somehow (lands wouldnt be in the deck so I'd have to figure that out), I was thinking maybe scaling casting DCs that have a flat amount + amount that slowly goes up as you cast spells + mana cost, or something along those lines.
I wouldn't translate it into the existing system, I'd be ditching the magic system and designing one to use Magic Cards.
I'd have to have some rules about deck building, like:
"Cards that do X can't be in your deck"
And make a list of mtg effects you cant include.
Then include some quick conversion guide for the damage spells.
Things that make you draw a card are fine as is.
hmm. I'm not saying it'd be simple, but it sure as hell is sounding like a cool idea.
obv I couldnt actually include any cards, they'd be a set of patch rules to allow you to field any mtg cards in your deck you like.
You could say that mages have to establish control over actual holdings to gain their power. Each morning, a caster gains points of mana for each location that flies their flag. That way, powerful casters will battle over actual land and give motive for plots.
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You could say that mages have to establish control over actual holdings to gain their power. Each morning, a caster gains points of mana for each location that flies their flag. That way, powerful casters will battle over actual land and give motive for plots.
Ooh. thats nifty. I dont think as the only source of mana, but as a bonus source, I love it.
What do you think of the idea of including the actual cards in an rpg?
It has been done before and could be done. Said that I don't think I would like to use cards while playing. But then again I don't even use miniatures. I'm pretty much against using anything else other than dice and writing implements.
I did thought on what would take to make a MtG Campaign and the best I came up with is: Keep the non-casters classes as is, use variant paladins and rangers that don't cast and scrape the caster classes to substitute for five new planeswalker classes. Each class would represent a color and they would have some similar mechanics but some different powers(Each representing having a one color deck). There would be one PrC for multiclassing as two planeswalker classes(a two color deck), and other focusing on artifacts(artifact deck). I'm busy with other projects now but I would like to come back to that.
I would do something like specialist Wizards have. You declare your color when you make the character. When you level, you get to choose some number of new mana to have (this would require some serious balance testing), but a certain amount of that mana has to be of your chosen color. At no point can a mage have more mana of another color besides his chosen one.
Example: A Green Mage at first level starts with two green and can choose 2 more mana of any color. He chooses one Black and one White. At 2nd level he gets another Green automatically, plus chooses two more mana. He chooses White and Blue.
His mana pool for the day now consists of 3 Green, 2 White, 1 Black, 1 Blue. Any color can be converted to colorless of course.
As for winning lands through battle as was suggested, I would have those be specific lands that give him a specific abilty, like non-traditional lands in MtG.
Also, an easier way to run this would be to allow players to build a small starting deck, and then (like wizards find spells now) have them discover the spells (earn creatures through beating them or convincing them to let you summon them?) throughout the game. You could of course take spells from another mage you kill, and possibly even steal mana of his? Artifacts would be magic items you find. You'd have to balance "tap" abilities to maybe be once per combat or a certain amount of times per day.
Just a few thoughts. It would basically be a new game, but it sounds effing fun as hell.
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I are intrigued! =D
Some ideas:
-Well, a rather obvious one, artifacts and enchantments could be "magic items" in a DnD sense.
-Rarity determines power
-Common is 1, uncommon is 2, rare is 3, mythic rare is 4, legendary is rarity times 2.
-Low level, most spells are commons, powerful things at this level would be uncommon, and entire quests might be based on a good uncommon or a rare.
-Mid level, most spells are uncommons, powerful things at this level would be rares, and entire quests might be based on a good rares or a mythic rare.
-High level, most spells are rares, powerful things at this level would be mythic rares, and entire quests might be based on legendary cards (cards with the subtype 'legendary'.)
-Treat artifacts as equipment, monsters as summons, enchantments as buffs/debuffs/etc.
-Enchantments/buffs/debuffs persist depending on rarity and mana cost.
-Rarity of Ecl-2: cost equals hours
-Rarity of Ecl-1: cost equals ten minutes times the cost
-Rarity of Ecl: cost equals minutes
-Rarity of Ecl+1: cost equals rounds
-Rarity of Ecl+2: cost equals 1 round
-Artifacts have a uses/day depending on rarity and mana cost (you decide)
-Creatures last a number of rounds equal to (ecl x rarity) - (cost of creature x rarity)
-When a prepared caster uses a spell, the card goes away until prepared again.
-When a spontaneous caster uses a spell, the card stays until slots run out.
-Spell level is cost x rarity
-Only spells with a cost = to ecl can be cast.
I'm sure i missed some ideas I had. Thoughts?
Remembered another idea!
-When a character is created, they either pick a creature type or a color. You then pick a creature of that type/race to represent your character. You can only pick a creature with an equal ecl to you. Ecl for creature cards is cost x rarity. You gain 'class abilities' based on the creature's abilities. Your life and damage equal it's power and toughness.
-Only Spellcasters may choose planeswalkers. Ecl of a planeswalker is (cost x counters they start with)/2 .
-Idea for spell damage: spell cost determines number of dice, spell damage determines number of sides on the dice, rounded down to the nearest die.
Wait so are you recommending that the magic cards be mechanic or fluff? IE are the decks going to exist in world? Or is the magic deck purely a representation of what the characters can do in world?
Wait so are you recommending that the magic cards be mechanic or fluff? IE are the decks going to exist in world? Or is the magic deck purely a representation of what the characters can do in world?
I was thinking as a mechanic. Whether you have a deck or just cards to represent this are up to discussion
I'd never touch it as a mechanic but as fluff and a basis for a new mechanic, I think it's an interesting idea. Don't use the cards. Steer clear of that if you can; it's not suited to a roleplaying game and trying to shoehorn it in will end only in grief and madness.
Build from the ground up. Rather than trying to force a mechanic into a game, work out what kind of effect you want to see and build a mechanic to achieve that.
You could use a Vancian system, just taking Pathfinder's classes and 'colouring' their spell slots. Make casters of the different colours (and hybrids) archetypes or spell schools rather than classes in themselves.
And put the existing spells into the colours instead of schools, or write the Magic spells in the Pathfinder format.
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Each character got certain bonuses based on their guild. I just made those up to fit the character, but they were roughly the equivalent of racial bonus packages. (You're a human, so you get the human package. You're from Izzit, so you get the Izzit package on top of it.)
To help people come up with character ideas, some of us brought in a bunch of cards from the Ravnica block and we all just browsed through them for inspiration.
Also, you should read Arena
It's a system that really lends istelf to existing WITHIN the fantasy setting instead of just being ABOUT the fantasy setting.
I've been working on a conversion of the Alpha/Beta/Unlimited set to Pathfinder rules, using a 1 card per day blog format. It doesn't use the cards, so it may not be what you're looking for, but you may get useful ideas. Feedback is welcome, and I already know the blue mage's special ability sucks in comparison to the other colors, but hey, that's why I want feedback.
If you're interested, go to pfmtg.wordpress.com and take a look.
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I was actually thinking cards as a mechanic, and having the player have a 7 card hand and have a mechanic for drawing and whatnot.
I really like the Idea of the 5 planeswalker classes though. Then standard classes could stay the same. Even a single planeswalker class with a few pick and choose abilities based on MTG Colors could work.
Now, I wouldn't be against taking the magic card for the original idea, and then making a new card which has pathfinder mechanics on it.
Alternatively, They could use the original cards for the deck, and then use some sort of lookup table for the spells.
I could make it the same size, and then they could use magic sleeves.
Main reason I'm thinking I want the deck mechanic is that I like the Idea of the randomness that comes with it.
@GodEmperor: I like that, and I'll be paying attention to it. it is bookmarked. :)
I'll be saving those pages.
@GodEmperor: I like that, and I'll be paying attention to it. it is bookmarked. :)
I'll be saving those pages.
Thanks, Darkholme! Your kind words are appreciated. And yeah, I feel having the lack of randomness is one of the largest sources of difference from my conversions from the original cards. I can't remember if I've done any "draw a card" or "discard a card" spells yet, but those will definitely have to be changed if you're using random cards. Fortunately, they should work as they do on the cards, then, since you sound like you'll be using a deck to draw from.
Anyway, I hope you keep checking and enjoying the page. Thanks again!
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/plane-shift-zendikar-2 016-04-27
I've actually been working on something similar in my spare time, but using the cards as an in game representation of characters, powers, etc. Every player character is essentially a legendary creature with abilities to match and I would use magic cards to supplement the game rather than replace it. Casting classes would get a large amount of bonus mana rather than spells, depending on their hit die. Here's a quick example.
Ayli is a female white black kor cleric, level 4 (colored mana x2 + colorless mana). She has no compulsions about sacrificing her allies to insure the safety of zendikar. Her initial mana rating is 4, 1 white, 1 black, and 2 colorless from being a cleric. which restores itself each turn. She may draw on the current land to supply additional mana. Currently residing in ash covered mountainous terrain, it can supplement her current mana with either one red or one black, but she must wrest control from an enemy spellcaster.
However, she can only use 2 mana to cast, as she's wearing swift foot boots. Her attached spells are Bone Splinter, Gideon's Reproach, and Lithomancers Focus. She's claiming the ground as her own when attacked by a Thought Knot Seer. It wrests the spell Lithomancer's Focus from her control. Ayli won't get it back until the combat is over. Ayli rolls initiative, easily going first. With an attack bonus of +12, she rolls a 17, hitting the Seer's 32 AC with a critical hit. Wanting to finish the fight as quickly as possibly, Ayli also casts Gideon's Reproach, dealing an extra 8 damage and dropping the Seer. Without it's presence, she can either attempt to tether a new spell or regain her Lithomancer's focus.
Abilities and their their translations.
Haste- Grants +10 movement speed and +4 initiative, granted by the boots.
Deathtouch- Represented by an increased critical range of +2.
Power and Toughness- Power increases the base attack by the same amount and toughness adds triple its amount to hp.
This way players can either play as their favorite cards, but I'm also building a system where players create their own.
Vigilance- Toughness is added to AC.
Trample- Increase damage dealt equal to the amount your attack roll beat their AC.
First Strike- May respond to an attack with an attack of opportunity.
Double Strike- May make an extra attack per turn and you also gain First Strike.
Flying- Flight speed. Duh.
Exile- Remove character until end of combat. Summoned minions (tokens) are gone forever.
Lifelink- Heal 1/2 damage dealt with attacks.
Shroud- Increase all saves by +2. Instants attack fortitude, enchantment will, and sorceries reflex.
Protection- Gain shroud against those specific spells, +2 attack against aligned creatures, +2 ac against aligned creatures, and evasion/mettle against spells/abilities.