| 6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata. |
Does a Ioun Stone (Scarlet and blue, Sphere, +2 enhancement bonus to Intelligence) grants bonus Skill Ranks/points after being worn for 24+ hours?!
Or perhaps the question should be: Do you HAVE to remove a Ioun Stone if you are going to lie down/Sleep, or does it continue to orbit even if you lie down?
Is this covered in a FAQ somewhere?!
Thanks!
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Does a Ioun Stone (Scarlet and blue, Sphere, +2 enhancement bonus to Intelligence) grants bonus Skill Ranks/points after being worn for 24+ hours?!
Or perhaps the question should be: Do you HAVE to remove a Ioun Stone if you are going to lie down/Sleep, or does it continue to orbit even if you lie down?
Is this covered in a FAQ somewhere?!
Thanks!
yes it grants skill points, but the skill they're applied to is chosen at item creation.
technically there is no reason to ever remove it (tho it does show that you have a shiny floating thing)
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yes it grants skill points, but the skill they're applied to is chosen at item creation.
technically there is no reason to ever remove it (tho it does show that you have a shiny floating thing)
Funny, I find nowhere regarding Ioun Stones that mentions skill points being assigned at its time of creation. The ioun stone merely grants a +2 to INT, which in turn grants +1 SP to the character, assuming the +2 gives the character a modifier bonus. This +1 SP is available for the character to assign as needed, not determined by the creator of the stone. The creator of the stone chose for it to boost INT, not SP.
Am I not reading something somewhere?
yes it grants skill points, but the skill they're applied to is chosen at item creation.
technically there is no reason to ever remove it (tho it does show that you have a shiny floating thing)
Funny, I find nowhere regarding Ioun Stones that mentions skill points being assigned at its time of creation. The ioun stone merely grants a +2 to INT, which in turn grants +1 SP to the character, assuming the +2 gives the character a modifier bonus. This +1 SP is available for the character to assign as needed, not determined by the creator of the stone. The creator of the stone chose for it to boost INT, not SP.
Am I not reading something somewhere?
The designers have stated this, though I can't find a source at the moment. All items that grant a bonus to intelligence have the skill points that are gained from the int bonus applied to one specific skill. This is to prevent a +2 Int item from giving all maxed skills in the game (though only one at a time).
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The designers have stated this, though I can't find a source at the moment. All items that grant a bonus to intelligence have the skill points that are gained from the int bonus applied to one specific skill. This is to prevent a +2 Int item from giving all maxed skills in the game (though only one at a time).
Interesting. I'd like to know where this ruling is and whether it's optional, suggested, or absolute.
yes it grants skill points, but the skill they're applied to is chosen at item creation.As far as I can tell, this is only true of the headband of vast intellect (and related items), though ruling this for any Intelligence-boosting item is not unreasonable.
Agreed.
So, I still dunno if you can keep a Ioun Stone all the time... The description does comment on sleeping:
These crystalline stones always float in the air and must be within 3 feet of their owner to be of any use. When a character first acquires a stone, she must hold it and then release it, whereupon it takes up a circling orbit 1d3 feet from her head. Thereafter, a stone must be grasped or netted to separate it from its owner. The owner may voluntarily seize and stow a stone (to keep it safe while she is sleeping, for example), but she loses the benefits of the stone during that time. Ioun stones have AC 24, 10 hit points, and hardness 5. The powers of each stone vary depending on its color and shape (see the table).
Wouldn't this be indicative that you are required to remove the ioun stone when going to sleep? (Why would you want to loose the bonuses granted anyways?!)
Clarifying this would let me know if a Ioun Stone granting INT bonuses gives Skill Ranks or not...
No, it does not imply that you must remove an ioun stone to sleep. It implies that leaving an obviously magical item floating around your head while you sleep might not be safe (ie, it's thief bait).
Ooglers (My version of eye tyrants) claim to have invented Ioun Stones, and they don't land to sleep. They also can't close their eye. This is another GM's choice. Please don't turn it into a flame war.
You could have an ioun stone orbit your character's head in a saturn's rings pattern, framing your character's face, if your GM allows that.
The skill points, right, GM's choice if you get any and to what skills. Maybe you can retrain an ioun stone after much expense and effort. Maybe you only get skill points when you go up a level after aquiring the stone. In any case, it's not worth arguing for me.
By rules, you get the skill points after wearing it for half an hour...
Where do you see half-an hour?
Permanent bonuses are said to fully 'activate' after 24 hours (source)
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
In any case, my original post seeks to find out if you can wear a Ioun stone "permanently" (so as to gain the INT bonus in a permanent fashion) OR if you HAVE to remove it at the end of the day. In the first case, you gain more Skill Ranks to spend (as INT becomes permanent) and in the latter case, you do not gain more skill ranks.
Which skills?
Class skills, so someone doesn't put a half point in every knowledge?
That would come up if my gaming group ever start playing again.
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Ohh, that is got to chafe...
I'm more scared of the warriors wearing their +6 Strength belts for a week straight, personally. Who wears a belt forever?
Not an issue, really. I don't think there is a single instance where a permanent physical stat boost is any better than a temporary-but-really-long one. This means you can take your belt of to urinate without worrying about your daily fort save vs. disease :P
The headbands would be what I'd be worried about."This is my hat. There are many others like it, but this one's mine. If you try to take it off I'll burn away your very existence. Why? Because it's Tuesday."
Ohh, that is got to chafe...
I'm more scared of the warriors wearing their +6 Strength belts for a week straight, personally. Who wears a belt forever?Not an issue, really. I don't think there is a single instance where a permanent physical stat boost is any better than a temporary-but-really-long one. This means you can take your belt of to urinate without worrying about your daily fort save vs. disease :P
The headbands would be what I'd be worried about.
"This is my hat. There are many others like it, but this one's mine. If you try to take it off I'll burn away your very existence. Why? Because it's Tuesday."
I THINK permanent ability score bonuses can be used to qualify for feats, while temporary can't (though you'll lose access to the feat if you don't have the ability score in question, such as from losing your belt).
If you treat the ioun stone like the headband of intellect, you'll assign one skill to it for each +2 enhancement bonus it grants. That skill will be considered to have a number of ranks equal to your character level. Those ranks do not stack with any you already possess. So your typical ioun stone might give ranks in Knowledge (arcane). If you think about it, that means you're gaining 1 skill point per level, assuming you have no ranks in that skill. The wearer doesn't assign the points. It was pointed out by the Paizo crew some time ago that the skill was hardwired into the headband to keep people from passing the thing around and becoming geniuses in a different skill every few days, as well as to simplify bookkeepping if the headband were removed or destroyed. Really, I'd just treat the thing like a slotless headband of intellect, save yourself some headaches, and if need be smite the powergamer/rules lawyer/munchkin that annoys you by saying otherwise ;)
I THINK permanent ability score bonuses can be used to qualify for feats, while temporary can't (though you'll lose access to the feat if you don't have the ability score in question, such as from losing your belt).
Correct. Mind you, if you take off the belt or stow the ioun stone, you need to check to see if you meet the prereqs on any feats that might be affected. Those feats (and any feats that rely on them as prereqs) go inactive and are unavailable if the stat prereq isn't met.
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Correct. Mind you, if you take off the belt or stow the ioun stone, you need to check to see if you meet the prereqs on any feats that might be affected. Those feats (and any feats that rely on them as prereqs) go inactive and are unavailable if the stat prereq isn't met.
I THINK permanent ability score bonuses can be used to qualify for feats, while temporary can't (though you'll lose access to the feat if you don't have the ability score in question, such as from losing your belt).
True enough, but I'm not sure you need to make the bonus permanent for the feat to work again, just to take it in the first place (this is ostensibly because you can't train a feat that requires an ability score without having that score for large swathes of time). I could see this argued either way, though. I'm a bit more of a light-handed DM so I would probably allow the feat to return with a temporary bonus (gives Cat's Grace and similar spells new life in some corner cases).
I'm going with the skill points are set when the item is made.
The whole, tuning the crystal's vibration matrix at creation thing.
I read this book, Crystal Singer, and it was great.
I don't believe that skill points were listed on the Ioun stones because it's assumed that people are taking it off to sleep, thereby preventing it from ever getting to the point where it would matter....
Yeah - but I'm still not sure if you HAVE to take it off, or if you can actually sleep with it (Note that sleeping with a Ioun stone orbiting around your head would make it easy for a Thief to steal it! HEHE)
To solve the issue (for TOS+) I'll add a second Ioun Stone of the same 'color/ability', except that this one will NOT grant Skill Points!
This way, Players/Game Masters can make the decision which 'flavor' (rule) they want to use. I still think Ioun stone wouldn't grant Skill Ranks, but this is my interpretation.
Thanks all for the participation!! AND do tag this as FAQ material!!
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