Wisdom in the Flesh and Armor Check Penalty

[coyote6]

Question: If you take Wisdom in the Flesh for a skill that ordinarily takes an armor check penalty, do you still suffer the ACP?

The equipment chapter says ACP applies to Dex & Str-based skills, and Wisdom in the Flesh makes the skill a Wis-based skill. But I'm not entirely sure it makes sense in any way except as a "RAW" kind of thing. (Your hours of meditation don't make the armor any less hindering, for instance; and you could argue that the skill is still Dex/Str-based -- you just get to sub Wis for Dex/Str.)

So, which is it? Skill + Wisdom in the Flesh => ACP or no ACP?

(BTW, I just noticed the change in Ride and ACP from 3.5e to PF, and am amused that knights in full plate are worse at controlling their horses than folks in just clothes. ;) )

[Nightwish]

coyote6 wrote:

Question: If you take Wisdom in the Flesh for a skill that ordinarily takes an armor check penalty, do you still suffer the ACP?

The equipment chapter says ACP applies to Dex & Str-based skills, and Wisdom in the Flesh makes the skill a Wis-based skill. But I'm not entirely sure it makes sense in any way except as a "RAW" kind of thing. (Your hours of meditation don't make the armor any less hindering, for instance; and you could argue that the skill is still Dex/Str-based -- you just get to sub Wis for Dex/Str.)

So, which is it? Skill + Wisdom in the Flesh => ACP or no ACP?

(BTW, I just noticed the change in Ride and ACP from 3.5e to PF, and am amused that knights in full plate are worse at controlling their horses than folks in just clothes. ;) )

I would say yes, it would still take the ACP, because the trait doesn't actually change the skill to a Wis-based skill.

As for knights in full plate, I can see that. Of course, a skilled knight in full plate will typically be better at controlling their mount than typical plainsclothed folks, but that's because they're likely to put a lot more ranks into that skill, especially if they're trained for mounted combat.

[Stubs McKenzie]

The only way I see anyone agreeing with the 'knight being worse at controlling their horse because of full plate armor' bit is if they believe full plate was actually a severe hindrance to a persons movements. In reality, it wasn't... if it was it would never have been useful on a battlefield unless you were just trying to act like a human shield, instead of actually fight. Yes, I know PF and 3.x treat the more protective armors as a larger hindrance, but in most cases the game version is a good deal distant from the real life version of an armor and its capabilities for game balance. PF has extended that real life vs game balance to Ride as well.

In summation... blech.

I would also rule that a skill + Wisdom of the Flesh still takes an ACP, as you aren't changing the action to use the skill to a non-physical thing, just the bonus involved in doing it well.